Suggestion: Color Blind Help

Yesterday, my fiance was playing GalCiv, and noticed that in the diplomacy screen, the text color of your offer changes from green to yellow, depending on whether the alien race is likely or unlikely to accept your offer. I think this is a great idea, but there's just one problem: I can't tell the difference between the two colors. I didn't notice this feature until it was pointed out to me, and now that I know about it, I still have to ask my fiance to tell me whether the text is yellow or green. I'm color blind, so I'm fairly used to dealing with this sort of thing, but it's kind of frustrating that so few game developers build color blind help into their games. All I'm asking for is for the option to make the two text colors more strikingly different, or to add some other visual cue that isn't color-dependant. Or, if someone could tell me how to mod the colors myself, that would work, too. Anyway, other than that the game is great.
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Reply #1 Top
I'm also color blind, and I can sympathize with you. I don't have that much trouble with the trade offer text changing (I find the "green" is quite a bit darker then the "yellow), but I often get the Arceans and the Torians confused on all the graphs and on the galaxy map.

I'd like to know how to assign colors to the different races, or maybe someone could come up with a color blind patch (I recall there was one for Civilizations 3, so its not something unheard of).

Reply #2 Top
Hey, I see colors fine and I get confused between some of the minor races and the Yor and Drengin. I don't know how you spectrally challenged players do it :)

~SDC~
Reply #3 Top
Can you distinguish between red and green better? I could modify the font file for you so that it uses the red font instead of the yellow one.
Reply #4 Top
I'm not color blind, but I know someone who is "red-green" color blind (can't tell red from green) and apparently this is a "standard" type of color blindness.

I think one way to help is to vary the "brightness" (sorry don't know the technical term) of the colors enough so that even if one is color-blind, one color will be a lighter shade and thus can be distinguished.

As long as we are on the topic of colors, the only "issue" I have is that it's difficult for me to tell the difference between the dark blue and black background colors on the sector influence mini-map.

Oh yeah, I love this game! :CONGRAT:
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Reply #5 Top
Yeah, LifeWish is right. I'm for myself have no problems of that kind, but I know several people who are colourblind and they all can't tell red from green - it is the most common form of colorblindness.
Reply #6 Top
I am colorblind as well. Although I have to tell you that currently I am so busy learning the basic mechanics of the game I have not noticed it yet. But I am sure I will.

With SMAC (Alpha Centauri) this problem existed as well because of terran. Firaxis came out with a later patch that fixed it fortunately.
Reply #7 Top
Can you distinguish between red and green better? I could modify the font file for you so that it uses the red font instead of the yellow one.
End of quote


You know Cari, I tried this very same thing last night (great minds...) until I got too frustrated that I gave up. No matter which fonts I switched it seemed to have no effect on the diplomacy screen.

I'm assuming that they were in verdanacolors.fnt, but I also tried messing around with arialcolors.fnt... I must be missing something... hrmmm (:(
Reply #8 Top
I have to sympathize woth a number of the posters here. I have low vision and not color blindness. It has been my experience that changing the font style; as well as the color may make for not only a more readable text but one that can be dinstinct from other text.

Ex. Verdana + Green = Acceptable Trade
Arrus Blk BT+ Yellow = Not acceptable

You could also add a visual cue ala the alien that your dealing with.

Reply #9 Top
Can you distinguish between red and green better? I could modify the font file for you so that it uses the red font instead of the yellow one.
End of quote


Using a dark red font would help on the diplomacy screen.

Is there any way to change the race colors on the map and the graphs?
Reply #10 Top
I'm red/green, and generally manage, with one bugbear.

Can I 'hack' the red color used when my treasury value is negative (on the main screen)? Darned if I can read it without some serious squinting. I'd love to make it brighter (say pink).

Any advice greatfully received.
Reply #11 Top
I suffer from color vision deficiency as well. While not completely colorblind I have great difficulty distinguishing between subtle shades of various colors.

I've experienced most of the issues others mentioned above but it hasn't stopped me from playing yet. It gets a bit frustrating at times but the games just to good :)

CariElf
Adobe Photoshope actually makes a filter which will allow designers/developers to simulate various types of colorblindness people suffer from.

Article:
http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/9112.html

CNN Article: http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/10/12/photoshop.colorblind.idg/

Clipped from CNN article:
"(IDG) -- Colorfield Digital Media, a new Pittsburgh, Penna., company, has announced the release of Colorfield Insight 1.0, a $79 Adobe Photoshop filter that allows designers to simulate the effects of colorblindness when viewing images. The filter is available now for purchase online.

The company notes that about seven percent of the male population suffers from visual color deficiency (it is extremely rare in women). The filter gives designers an idea of how images will appear when colorblind people view them."
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Color Blindness is actually much more prevalent than people realize. Here's a quote below taken from: http://webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/2.html

"Colorblindness is typically a genetic condition, and it is much more common in men than in women. Approximately one in 12 men has at least some color perception problems. Less common, acquired deficiencies stem from injury, disease, or the aging process. Also, although not called "colorblindness," when people age, their corneas typically turn yellowish, severely hampering their ability to see violet and blue colors."
-------------

Here's another from an excellent CNN article discussing the new eyeglasses developed for people with color vision deficiencies.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/04/20/color.blindness.wmd/

Clipped from the CNN article:

"Colorblindness, or more accurately color vision deficiency, mostly affects men and tends to run in families. As many as one in 12 men has some degree of this condition, as compared to about one in every 250 women. Besides difficulty with red-green perception, some people have other color vision problems, such an inability to distinguish yellows from blues. In very rare cases, a person may be truly colorblind and see only shades of black and white.

The ColorMax lenses work by shifting the wavelengths of the light entering the eye towards the longer end of the visible spectrum, Bailey says, making it easier for the eye to distinguish between the "warm" colors -- reds, yellows and oranges. However, the wavelengths of colors at the shorter end of the spectrum -- blues and purples -- are also shifted. These may actually become slightly harder to distinguish. Greens fall in the middle and are less noticeably affected. The result is not "normal" vision, but an enhanced contrast between colors.

When Siciliano first tried the lenses, he could instantly see many more variations in shades of color. "You have to relearn all of the colors with the glasses on," he says. "Someone has to tell you that 'that is red.' You say, 'OK, that's red,' and work from there." "
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Colorblindness comes in varying degrees. If you're interested in the prevalent types, or the effects of hue & bightness on those of us with color vision deficiencies, some of the more prevalent types are reviewed here: http://members.aol.com/nocolorvsn/color2.htm


Reply #12 Top
Great info Ubbax.

For those without a macintosh handy (AFAIK Colorfield Insight is only available for the Mac), try going to
http://www.vischeck.com/ - this Stanford U site has a free online tool to let you see what a web page or graphic file (ie screenshot) looks like to a person with impaired color vision.
Reply #13 Top
would it be to hard to code in an * or some other symbol next to the text in addition to a color change to show an acceptable trade?
Reply #14 Top
Wow. I honestly didn't expect this many replies. It's definitely good to know that I'm not alone here, though.

Cari: I'm not sure that red and green would be a whole lot better. I'd personally prefer something like white or blue, though others may not share this preference.

It would be nice if this were easily modifiable on a personal level, so that we could all adjust the colors to whatever we wanted them to be.

~SDC~
Reply #15 Top
I'm color blind also and would love to see a color blind patch. I dont't think red/green combo would work however, the white and blue suggestion above would certainly work.
Reply #16 Top
I suffer from color vision deficiency as well. While not completely colorblind I have great difficulty distinguishing between subtle shades of various colors.
End of quote


Ubbax,
I have the exact same problem so I know what you mean. :p
What's scary is I'm a production manager for a media company and work with graphics and art (layout, design, proofing, etc. etc.) all day long. To make troubles even worse I have to work on dual computers (PC & Mac) and 4 moniters jumping from RGB to CMYK constantly - aye yi yi ;)

I previously suggested a color change to the trade screen in another thread (probably got lost in the shuffle) here:
http://www.galciv.com/forum.asp?BID=GM&id=57893
Reply #17 Top

It's not really easily modifiable on your end; I was just going to edit the file and make it available to you.

If our fonts weren't encoded sprites as opposed to actually using truetype fonts, it would be easier to set it up so that you could pick all your own colors.

The fonts and the images that we don't actually draw to the screen you could change right now if I gave you our encoding program and you changed the palettes.  It would be a tedious process, but you would probably be able to get it to work.  It would take code to actually change the colors of stuff that we draw to the screen pixel by pixel. 

At some point we are going to have to figure out the palette swapping code that hasn't been used since The Corporate Machine because no one currently here knows how to use it, and we'll need it in Gal Civ 2.

Since palette swapping and modifiable color definitions would help the modders too, it probably wouldn't be out of the question to work on it, but I don't know how soon I'll be able to. 

Reply #18 Top
In the interim Cari could I suggest this scheme:

Swap yellow and use the red in it's place
Swap green and use the yellow in it's place

This would be have the net result of using Red for no, Yellow for yes and does not put red and green together (for those who have true color blindness)

Red and yellow should be pretty obvious to most everyone :HOT:
Reply #19 Top
Yeah, that would probably work. I'm hoping this is taken care of sooner rather than later; it would make the diplomacy screen less frustrating for me.

Reply #20 Top
when modifying this please no more dark colors (dark red dark blue etc, bright colors like light red or pink, light blue please. I cant distinguish the dark colors
Reply #21 Top
This is turning into AA for color blindness. I am also red/green color blind and would love to see a switch on some of the colors. I think the red/yellow solution is a good one for the diplomacy screen.

I also have a hard time of telling who owns what on the overview map but that is probably a much harder fix.

Any ideas??
Reply #22 Top
At some point we are going to have to figure out the palette swapping code that hasn't been used since The Corporate Machine because no one currently here knows how to use it, and we'll need it in Gal Civ 2.
End of quote


Gal Civ 2??? :CONGRAT: :CONGRAT: :CONGRAT:
Reply #23 Top
I would not change any of the colors used right now; you'll help some people but make it worse for others. I'd hold off on any changes until you can simply add a palette option so users can pick whatever text color combinations they want.

Bruce
Reply #24 Top
SirBruce: this is why I originally requested a color blindness help *option*. By no means do I want it to change for everyone; I realize that many people probably like the colors as they are. However, Civilization 3 had an option that you could toggle on or off that would help those with trouble distinguishing colors. That's what I want: the option to make the game more enjoyable for myself.

~SDC~
Reply #25 Top
Maybe you could use a green highlighter pen on the part of your monitor where this offensive text appears?