Woohoo! Did anybody see CariElf's reply to that troll in the 1.13 bug thread?

You go girl!!

That was my impression of the samller maps as well....if you can take out one of the majors early, it's pretty much a done deal!

Hmmm... this medium maso talk is going to my head. I've won a couple of dozen and I can give you some suggestions if anyone is interested.

I don't think it's hard, but it's a different mindset then most maso players have -- I play a military strategy and know how to win wars when I'm completely outgunnned -- which isn't as hard as it sounds. The AI will attack 1) an undefended planet or (2) an defended planet that is closest to them. -- so you actually don't have to bother defending most of your planets (most of my planets have a single corvette or occassionaly a freighter in the mid-to-late game.) (3) Experienced ships are valuable - if you notice a ship has made level 2 or higher, pull it back and heal it. You'll be glad you did and it will always take down several ships of a similiar value later on.

The key is to taking down a major as soon as possible, you need about a 2.5 to 1 planet ratio to most of the majors for them to leave you alone - also while I don't take speed as a pick, speed techs / grav accelators are VERY important though - but trade for grav accelators. The AI war alot without encouragement and it is critical to be in a position to capitalize.

You need some diplo, but pop bonuses are most important. You need to build critical mass through population.

Don't be a afraid of wars - you don't have to alpha strike, but you do have to hit the AI hard enough that it will settle for you. As long as you have positive cashflow and a planet advantage, don't worry if it won't settle for peace.

By the way, I don't consider it cheese to bribe AIs to attack a major that I'm at war with....

The best ships are corvettes, frigates, and a few death knights - don't build anything else and trade for the death knights if possible. Don't know why, but they aren't that expensive.

Also, keep track of all the starbases - the map isn't that big and grab any that free up...

Happy Raiding,

Cypher Pax

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Excellent strategy tips, Cypher! Thanks!

My way of playing is not that far off from your's. Basically, I depend on a larger military and feel Dreads are the best ships. I also bribe AIs to fight the others.

Hmm...stomach's growling. I think I'll go to lunch!

Just saw it......very nice. LOL

Actually, my useable military is quite small - maybe 2 DK and four to six frigates.... I rely on the fact that I can deploy my ships ANYWHERE on a medium map in a turn or two... if you've accumulated Mil Starbases, then the DKs can handle dreads.

If the AI has anything heavier than dreads or a lot of dreads, that's where the corvettes come in. Attack the planet with a corvette (it will blow up) and use a frigate to draw the AI ships after you.... then come in with a DK and your transports..

My games are generally won before I would have had time to build a Dread - the game isn't over but there's a major or two left and I own the rest of the map.

Very good! I like the way the troll brought up that he runs an Atari support site. Gee, I wonder if he can explain MOO3 then? He might as well either give up on GalCiv or change his nick and start over here in the forums.

You have sources everywhere, I see It's the last couple days until the general exam. I'm taking it easy at this point.

The consensus has been that medium or maybe large is hardest, for a very long time. On small maps, the AI's tactical weaknesses are really obvious and really easy to exploit, and trade provides you with all the income you need. On really big maps, everything happens more slowly. Even if you slip up and end up in a war you don't want, you have lots of time to fix your mistake before the enemy dreadnaughts come knocking. Medium-sized maps offer a "best of both worlds" situation.

Nastavnik>> Feel free to email me if you wish to talk off line about anything. I think you and I play at about the same levels and such. I can check the email from work also... it is [email protected]

I would vote for large being the harder than medium. The AIs are still close, but it's harder to exploit them as you can take tactical control of the map on medium with a smaller navy. Also, on my large games it seems that a major has a better chance of getting a little seperation and obtaining a significant planetary advantage.

The military graph is not actually meaningful. Winning battle means getting ships where they're useful, when they're useful - and the bigger the map the larger the military you need to do that.

-Cypher

I don't use warships and although win militarily, it is through culture bombing and terror stars. The size galaxy does not matter to me but learning to play gigantic takes practice. At first, it was maddening to have everything so tiny in the strategy map.

The current 60k cap gives a huge advantage to gigantic maso players because we can just squeak out a win with a terror star alpha strike after being dominated all game and still get 60k. Last game I had 4 planets, zero trade goods/wonders, and the Drengin had 15 or 16 planets and were running away with the game. A couple others had 6 to 12 planets. I was getting thumped but the trade routes and terror stars saved the day. It is important for me to have high diplo, trade for diplo translators & gravity accelerators, get the trade routes going early, and prepare for extortion demands and bribes by having lots of money. Money, money, money can avoid wars and win games. The bad maso AI might extort your early (let them have cash but never a planet) but you wil get the last laugh later on.

Wow! Good to see everybody here!

Lunch was great, by the way! Homemade chicken pot pie!

Cypher: Basically, I keep a paper tiger. It's only big because I want to keep the AIs off my back and I hate paying tribute! I generally build a ton of corvettes to boost my military rating and then build some Dreads to handle any emergency. I like to declare war on my own terms, generally by invading several systems the same turn I declare war, then suing for peace a turn or two later. I don't like losing transports on their way to a target.

I am guilty of culture bombing some systems, mostly if they are near resource starbases that I pick up in peace treaties. I try not to make culture bombing a primary tactic since it's kind of boring to me. Terror star strikes are generally to mop up or if I'm not doing well against someone.

I don't know if anybody noticed, but the last Gig/Maso I submitted was around 49000 points! I think it was because I played 3 Incred/2 Genius. I felt like such a loser! LOL

vincible: Glad to hear you are relaxing a little. I hope by that you mean your are comfortably ready for the exam!

The stategies of the masters........very nice! It's just one more thing that makes this forum so great!

The sharing of strategies only helps all of us! What's your take on military, Greldon? Do you like big or small militaries?

Well, gang. It's time to get out of here. I'm busy tonight, so I'll talk to everyone tomorrow.

Look for a Metaverse Review soon. RL has kept me from my duties for far too long!

Just popped in to say hi! Re the scoring - as vincible says, everyone has been involved in this debate at some time or other. Looking over the latest thread about scoring military victories, while it's an interesting debate, it isn't anything I didn't hear Staffa and Sergei discussing when I first arrived in the Metaverse. The scoring system rewards commitment more than skill, in a sense - if you're dedicated enough to keep submitting games, you'll rise: but to get to the top, you have to submit at maso. The game designers long ago said they felt the top of the ladder deserved to be occupied by players playing at the highest level, and I can see their reasoning. We might reignite the debate about linear versus exponential scoring systems, but really that discussion has been over for a while - I don't think Stardock are interested in changing.

I've just moved up to medium for my last few games; Theoden I can tell you that I think there might be some time efficiency value in it. I would average 28,000 for a small map and 35,000 for a medium map so far - so I'm getting 25% more score and I dont think it's taking me 25% longer to finish a game.

Tactically, I'm moving away from my favourite influence game and experimenting with pop bonuses (pop 70+ picks and universalist govt for another 10+) - Metaverse score (as opposed to game score) should benefit from that. Mixed in with a hybrid adaption of alpha striking for quick clean up of games. Sirian made an excellent point recently - if you can get over the early to mid game anxiety and struggle, the rest of the game should go easily, because unlike Cypher, the AI seems unable to recover from poor sitations - it either gets rolling and dominates, or goes downhill.

Have fun people!

Of late I don't build ANY military.. quite happy to pay the tribute as I'm normally at 100% spend with surplus coming in and keep all the civ's at friendly...

It's funny the way the ask you for money and call you friend to help with their peace keeping efforts.. Then say how much they appreciate it.

You would be surprised just how much trade comes in.. It's then all the sweeter when you terror star them later on.

Doing this strategy I can now finish a game in the region of late 2192 was my best to about 2198.

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In my opinion, the most effective strategy is to not build a military unless you're about to use it. It's often not cost-effective as a deterrent compared to bribes, once you factor in the cost from building and maintaining it, and the opportunity cost from delaying social production, techs, wonders, etc.

Also, if you only build the military when you're about to use it, it means that you aren't stuck with obsolete ships when a real war comes around.

Sometimes this means that I don't build any military at all. This depends on the game, though.

I usually combine invasion and terror stars. I send fleets (7 or 8) of constructors to the most distant systems, using one when needed to extend range. Once I get them on their way, my population has grown enough to start assembling an invasion force. The key here (for me) is to put together as large a strike force as possible. I often have 125 billion soldiers when I first attack. When my constructor fleets have revealed nearly the entire map and are in position, I strike out with my invasion fleet to the nearest system. I use just one invasion fleet which consist of the combat transports and 4 or 5 of my best class ships, Take out the closest system and then move to the next closest system. It usually takes a couple turns for their allies to join in (if there are any) which means I can often take over two or three systems (I play tight clusters) before help can arrive. If an ally declares war on me, there's a pretty good chance I've got a TS on their door step and KABOOM! Of course you need non-hostile relations with everyone to implement this strategy. But, the answer to your question is, I try not to build anything but constructors (and starbases)and freighters until I'm attacked, or ready to attack. Once the battle starts I build a few ships for defence. Bottom line, the bulk of my military is Constructors and Combat Transports.

Another reason I like gigantic is it gives me time to maximize my population.

And I thought you were Theoden, another name change??

Similar tactic without the combat transports unless I'm going for minors.. Check out Nand1's mod that if you don't have it.. give higher capacity freighters and transports.

I now go for finishing the game as early as poss.. When playing Gig/Maso you will always get 60k.. so what I try and do now is to beat my best time of 2hrs 21mins for a game.

...means each fleet is 7 or 8 constructors.

My best time is over 5 hours......around 5 hours and twenty minutes. On the other hand, one game took more than twenty hours to complete!

2hrs 21mins is amazing! Maybe some day I'll get there.

That's my best, but always under 3 hours.. check out the lighting alpha strike by maxtipherous, I've just tailored that to suit my game.. if you want to email me [email protected] i can let you have a doc i prepared with screencuts but it is huge 17mb just to give some pointers as to how I play... There may be a couple of things in there taht you don't use, also would be interested in your comments

Thanks Jaws. You have mail.