+1

Fleets in Sins1 had a number of problems so we looked to accomplish similar behavior and solve other problems with some new approaches. Fleets may return but not without collecting plenty of feedback on the current systems. If we added fleets off the bat then the new systems wouldn't get tested.

Most of your examples listed above are, in our opinion, actually easier to execute in Sins2 via improved rally point behavior, the book mark window, pre-production queue orders, improved pip groups, improved class based unit ai, ctrl-unit class selection, and ctrl-groups. And some additional issues you didn't identify (but were an issue in sins1) are solved via the Fleet Supply window (which will likely expand to have more helpful functionality).

One of the upcoming builds will also have a new selection window and auto-book marking of control groups, both of which should help. We are also considering adding autojoin to ctrl-groups.

We'll reexamine if we need to bring back what you are suggesting (or come up with something totally new) after our current plan has been fully tested with the public.

The game is only available via Epic Game Store for now.

Can you elaborate more on this one? By default, all selected ships should jump at the same time. You can override this by using CTRL when you click the move order.

Registered at the forum just to say how much I agree with the other comments. The whole system is a step backwards.

We are encouraging players to try the new features I noted above; this is part of why we are having an early access process. We think they have more to offer than the old fleet system. If not, we'll reconsider. 

The most important thing at this stage is to provide specific feedback on why the new features don't work for you, that way we can better evaluate and adjust accordingly.

As I said above,

1) No obvious way to easily add or subtract units from a ctrl+number group, or to select units of a certain type. The latter is especially frustrating because selecting ships of a type was a major tactical discriminator in Sins 1 (e.g. select flak ships and target fighters); now all you can realisticallu do is band-box your entire doom-stack fleet and dump all the ships on one target. Honestly, this dumbs down the tactics so much that I find it game-breaking. If I knew with certainty that the final game would be set up like that, I would not have bought it in the first place. I'm not saying it will be, but I emphasize how many options this takes away from the player. 

2) No rally points takes away tactical options that make the game easier to manage for the player; before, I could set ships coming out of any factory in the galaxy to go anywhere else I wanted in the galaxy. Now I have to manually watch every single ship roll out of a factory, hoping I don't get distracted by something else, remember where I wanted to send the ship, and then when it gets there break the entire ctrl+number group and reform it just to add this one ship... how the heck is this better? 

3) No fleet tactics selections takes away tactical options that make combat more interesting for the player 

4) No auto-join makes group composition tedious and easy to make mistakes with - again, its subtracting options and forcing the player to spend time doing manual micro-management 

If there are ways to do thse things, they need to be documented. 

You can rally point ships from specific factories or planets to any location or other unit. Just select the planet/factory and right-click on the rally location.

All of which you could easily do under the old system. It remains a huge, really disappointing,  seemingly pointless step backwards solely to "be different".

I am sure we will be able to make fleet groups in the final version like we used to be able to do in Original Sins. When I first got in on the tech preview, I was able to rename, Capital Ships and Planets, but after an update, I cant anymore. So I am sure these things will come back. I like to make specialized fleets as well. Or making support fleets when I need to send in torpedo cruisers or seige frigates, instead of having them in my main battle fleet. 

I'll repost this here since the original thread kinda died.

To be honest removing fleet formations is disappointing and I would honestly consider it a regression. I want to have actual fleet tactics. the current system just results in my ships getting split up when one inevitably doesn't jump as quickly as other ships and I fail to notice it. which is annoying. More so It also requires extensive micro management to get ships of one type to do the job they were designed for.

The current ship management system is good for nothing more then select all and attack one target at a time. It offers no features that contribute to a more dynamic or entertain battle engagement and from a strictly mechanics perspective it suggests combat is not intended to be a focus or key pillar of this game.

Its early so obviously that will change, but hopefully Blair this answers your question on what specifically about the current system is undesirable. 

To the point of my original post back in the fleet formations thread, we would enjoy seeing fleet combat grow and evolve. Not necessarily as a requirement to play, but having the option to create specialized fleet mechanics would allow for smaller fleets operating all over the map instead of 1 or 2 big fleets engaging in a blob:

I would actually like to expand this.

Fleet formations from the older games was functional but it would be great to see this expanded.

Ideally we could setup fleets such that ships can be grouped within a fleet. These groups would be customizable to be forward or aft of other groups within the fleet, and behavior can be set such as aggressive defensive, and target priority could be set.

As an example, heres what Id like to be able to set up:

I would like 1 fleet that moves and jumps together where carrier cruisers and carrier capital ships would hold back to launch fighters. They would have anti fighter frigates and long range missile frigates, and heavy cruisers in a group set to defend those carrier ships. These two groups would stick close and try to avoid direct combat.

Within this fleet I would have attack groups made up of an offensive capital ship and supporting ships where ships like the robotics cruisers would have a priority list by ship type for healing. These attack groups would have a target priority list such as structures, cruisers and frigates, or capitals. A fleet would have multiple attack groups that would spread about the gravity well based on how they have been setup.

There would be support or logistic groups where command cruisers, support capitals, and repair cruisers would be set to back up other attack groups based on overall health, or proximity of hostiles to the group.

I would treat "fleets" as a way to move huge vastly different ships from system to system together, while "Groups" would be how I as a player manager ships in that fleet within the gravity well. At the ship level, ships like flak frigates would ignore group attack orders and instead have a behavior, such as "Protect this group", and thus will follow the group and serve as anti fighter while that group executes its target. Missie frigates might be set to hang back while heavy cruisers may be set to defend them so the missiles will fire from behind a ship wall of heavy cruisers and those cruisers would use their mobility buffs to try and intercept return fire by physically blocking attacks.

This would allow me as the player to attack on multiple fronts and have multiple fleets vs a single large fleet which was common in rebellion. I could reasonably expect my fleet to be okay if I zoom to another engagement if I have more control of ship focus, ships grouping and location in the group, and group movement as a fleet.

Ideally I'd also be able to hover over the group and fleet icons to see stats on that group like shields of the group, hull of the group, with red and green text indication that suggest this groups shields are or are not sustaining compared to the group its engaging. so if shields or hull are falling faster that the group  or structure being attack they will be red but if the enemy is falling faster they would be green.

This allows for more macro management and allows us to pull back and manage at a much higher level and larger scale, jumping in to the micro when needed.

 

I do not believe changing Windows like basic functions is a good idea.

Who is going to think holding the left mouse button longer was a good idea? for anything?

Maybe right click and then a choice...?

I created an account here to just reply to this thread.

1.) I too am getting frustrated at not being able to easily add and remove ships to control groups and fleets.

In SOSA 1 you could set a group of units to a control group by selecting them and then pressing "CTRL + #". (Number being your control group number.)
Then you could add additional ships to that control group by separately selecting ships you wanted to add, and then pressing "CTRL + SHIFT + #"

I seem to no longer be able to add ships.


2.) Ships should not be required to be in the same gravity well to add them to a fleet.
You should be able to either (A) click and drag ships into that fleet ( Select the ship, select the fleet, and then use a hotkey or a button to add the ship to a fleet.

3.) In the fleet itself, I should be able to see ALL INDIVIDUAL SHIPS at ALL TIMES.
Not just the ships that are currently in a specific gravity well.

Like many others, I believe the current system is a downgrade...

I even had a few friends who were trying the game out for the first time getting frustrated at how badly control groups and fleets were implemented. (They are used to RTS games like Starcraft, Warcraft 3, command and conquer etc. which have a very intuitive system of control groups.)