Nukes - yes!, i would love them too. Full strategic zoom? You will have but it's going to be unique/stylish. Check the old post with strategic zoom. You're gonna love the ideas with heat maps and more.

Don't...do that. The devs won't jump and say "YES! he's a founder! Go go go with strategic-copied-zoom from SupCom!"...because they won't. They want something similar but still unique. They want us to say "remember the amazing zoom from AOTS? That is what I want in the X game!". It can be done...just wait for it 

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 4

Zooming out to a map full of icons where people play the game as icons is not a viable commercial game strategy.  So now, we won't be doing that.

However, in next week's update, we will have the first pass at the situational map where the player hits the space bar and it brings up a map of the world with what is happening on it.  It will evolve over the next few months.

See the Sins of a Solar Empire strategic zoom concept to get an idea of what we'd be inclined to do here.

But we have no plans to allow players to zoom out and display every unit as a little icon. Sorry.

 

 

First bold: Huh?  Zooming out and refocusing on the point of the map is exactly what Sup Com does.  Why is this not viable?

Second bold:  I've been playing Sins since 2008.  There's full galaxy zoom, you can focus on any planet (and the units in the planet's GW) you want or need to to manage the empire.

There is no reason not to have full zoom.  How can you appreciate the scale and scope of the battle if you can't see it all? How can I monitor what an enemy is doing if I've defeated the fog of war with sensors or patrolling scouts and I have visual access to a sector of the map.  Makes no sense.  It's just tedious when you have to think fast to redirect a battle order or command on the opposite side of a map.  Also, the commands are tedious.  If I want a unit do a patrol, I should be able to do it as Sup Com would do it. Click patrol and easily create a patrolling area by widening waypoints circularly.  That's what patrol is.  Intsead, the units have to return to the point of origin to be redirected? 

Also, there's no assist command if you want an engineer to help another engineer.  I mean common dudes... if you're going to rip off a game... do it right.

*oh and tilt would be nice too.  I'd like to see a battle from ground level in 3d.  That would be sweet.

** double edit

If these suggestions are not intended for the game you envision, I beseech you to think of a "Sup Com" mode or mod that can easily be built in.  I've already read on the Sup Com FA forever forum... "no zoom, no buy."

The more you make it like Sup Com, you're instantly attracting the thousands that have played and loved Sup Com.  It just makes sense to sell games.

Is there a list of key combo commands written down somewhere?   At least throw that in the next update.  

Look if I can't see the enemy If I've broken the fog of war, what's the point?  At least I'll be able to zoom on my units and control areas easier I guess.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 4

Zooming out to a map full of icons where people play the game as icons is not a viable commercial game strategy.  So now, we won't be doing that.

However, in next week's update, we will have the first pass at the situational map where the player hits the space bar and it brings up a map of the world with what is happening on it.  It will evolve over the next few months.

See the Sins of a Solar Empire strategic zoom concept to get an idea of what we'd be inclined to do here.

But we have no plans to allow players to zoom out and display every unit as a little icon. Sorry.

 

 

Thank You!

First post here, hi all!

That heading really grabbed my attention.

I think that's ok.

But not allowing the player at all to seamlessly fully zoom out his view with the mousewheel to a map without icons - that's a different thing.

I definitely want to fully zoom out that way to ...

1. get a good overview and enjoy the whole playing field from above (without icons) - I want to watch the whole war

2. give orders while fully zoomed out to a unit / group of units that I have selected previously while zoomed in

3. point my mouse at some point on the fully zoomed out view and then just scroll the mousewheel to zoom in on that point (much more relaxing and enjoyable than by clicking on a map to change the viewpoint)

4. avoid the feeling of the "field of view - prison" that's present right now

In short, I think I can live very well without the ablity to zoom out to a map full of icons. But I don't think I can live without the ability to seamlessly fully zoom out with my mousewheel at all - especially in a game that is maybe going to have bigger maps, more units and less micro than all comparable rts games.

Over the coming months, the situational view of the world will evolve based on player feedback of its use. 

Even in the current build, it should be clear why a Supreme Commander style strategic zoom wouldn't work.  The maps are so much larger that it just wouldn't work.

What we ultimately evolve it into and how we get to it remains to be seen.

The problem with posts like this is that it indicates a pre-bias towards a particular implementation out of a desire for this game to replace FA for them.  Ashes 1.0 won't satisfy FAF hard core fans because it is the result of many many years of refinement and nodding of a very particular game style.

Ashes is aiming to be its own strategy game that has elements of many games.  I never felt that Company of Heroes was lacking because I couldn't zoom out and control my groups.  Similarly, I still prefer Total Annihilation to Supreme Commander (all iterations) and it doesn't have a zoom out to the full map.

Whatever solution we come up with, it'll be based on the needs of this game and the fans of this game. A user insisting we have to make our game be like some other game only serve to ensure their input will be taken with a grain of salt.  If they won't give our ideas a chance to manifest, there's not a lot of inclination to listen to their feedback.

I, for one, am intrigued by the "space bar" method, can't wait to see it next week. I already have my Logitech G13 ready to go with hotkeys, and I can actually see the space bar being faster. Zoom in to an area to keep an eye on a battle, then to get the map view hit one key, then to go back hit the key again (or let it go, depends upon implementation). Seems quicker. Plus if I need to, I can map a mouse button to space bar.

Also, eating pizza while gaming will make you fat. Trust me, I was 100 lbs overweight at one point.

I also prefer Total Annihilation, as I have never been a fan of the "fully zoomed out looking just at icons" - type gameplay.

That said, I bought TA on the day it was released and ever since then I dreamed of the possibility to seamlessly fully zoom out. I don't want to have any icons as I like to zoom in for almost all of the actual gameplay, just the ablility to zoom out, take a look, and zoom in elsewhere.
It gives a special feeling of freedom and might be a great sight watching this huge war going on from a satellite like view (if the engine can handle it).

But I'm looking forward to trying your spacebar-implementation. Trying different things should be the purpose of an alpha and is fun.

I've finally decided to try the game and, while it's reasonably fun and not even too click-intensive, my eyes now bleed from numerous attempts to find my army on that tiny minimap or completely data-blind main viewport. Grand scale RTS must have an appropriate info and navigation tools, and that's what Strategic Zoom made for. Don't know if the new spacebar overview can get the job done - TA: Escalation mod have similar feature, and while it definitely works, it can feel not smooth enough for a player who's not an RTS enthusiast.

We agree. it's in alpha so much of that is still to come. 

presenting usable data to the player in an effective way is something that will evolve and iterate right up to release and beyond.

I know you were quoting frogboy.

There's a lot being said from the devs camp about this game being "different".  The game is already different.  I like it so far.  That has nothing to do with the ease of use a strategic zoom so I can easily see what the heck I'm doing and what my enemies are doing.  I'll give whatever they have planned a chance, but I really really see no reason at all why we can't click to zoom on any point of the map.  I don't think we'll need icons for this.  It's just the ability to refocus without driving your mouse off the pad and off the table.

*and also I hope this game isn't just spamming battlegroups, as much I like large scale gratuitous battles, Some game enders and exp. units would be nice.  These are RTS staples.  I think people expect them.  Maybe not exactly like Sup Com, but something.  Perhaps it's all in the works but I'm here to give my thoughts and feedback on the alpha build I'm using; and I think others think the same things I do in this regard.

And again over and over, they created the expectation when they copied Sup Com maps.  They didn't have to do that. Maybe it's paying homage....or being lazy. Whatever.

Throwing a monkeylord type at a 100+ unit spam battle- would be quite awesome.