What makes you say that you havent even tried the game yet ;(

Hello there.

I was reading this thread because this game really took me by susprise (the first time I heard if it was via a marketing mail some days ago) and my favorite RTS ever is Totala, and I felt this could be finally a true evolution (unlike SupCom, a great game, but not superior to Totala imho).

After reading a lot, I decided to reply here because, and I can only talk about myself, I'd love if true ballistics were in action in the game. Actually, is there a chance even terminal ballistics are true? I.E., could some weapon only be able to penetrate some armored unit from some angles and up to a certain range, etc? That would be simple amazing. 

About the units being groups of units, I'm all for it, I like the UI from CoH in this aspect and I really have unorganized blobs running around like idiots. I personally love Homeworld and formations worked kile a charm there, so I have no issues with it.

I understand the problem with full zoom with icons being allowed - anyone that doesn't WANT to play like that is in a huge disadvantage, so if you want people to actually fee the fight you gotta disallow it, but in fact I'm curious about the other solutions that can be used to make a huge scale RTS feel like you can control everything, not just spam and auto-attack. 

All in all, I'm glad this game is in the making and even more enthusiastic because it's not a visually enhanced Totala clone - as good as Totala was, things gotta evolve. 

Frogboy mentioned that while TA fans are going to like the game, SupCom community is a slightly different market and AotS can be just not for them. Considering that almost any improvement in SupCom over TA was introduced in order to increase accessibility by allowing different playstyles, including those considered "bad practice" amongst e-sports crowd, the only real market AotS can really target is the present day's population of TA/SupCom/ZK/PA competitive multiplayer. Also, Frogboy said that he favors opinions of high-ranked players in any questions regarding gameplay and balance, so it's pretty clear that AotS will be their playground just like PA. Other gameplay details that were provided to general public, like absence of nukes, artillery and shields or base building territorial limitations, hint towards the guess as well. I've already spent $100 for PA to get a game I can't really enjoy, and I don't want to spend another $45 just to confirm hypothesis that have >90% probability anyway.

Yeah, Homeworld did it in 1999. Black and White in 2001 has a zoom level which displayed the whole land.  Far Gate in 2001 is a space RTS with stratategic zoom.  ORB in 2002 is another space rts with strategic zoom. Haegemonia also in 2002 had strategic zoom complete with icons a la SupCom.  So lets stop saying out loud that we invented sliced bread by ourselves just last week. 

Have to say, these sort of illusions of grandeur and arrogance, coupled with "hey, happy to receive feedback, but we know better, and we'll actually be doing wathever we want, not what you, our customers and target for the game want"  make me a little nervous. Fingers crossed still.

Seriously, if you're going to be nasty then find another forum. 

We want to hear feedback. What we don't want, and what has been discussed endlessly, is for people to insist we make a clone of a game they want.  We run into this all the time with Galactic Civilizations (people who want it to be more like MOO).  Similarly, we are all fans of SupCom here but we are not looking to make a SupCom clone.  It's not a matter of us "knowing better", it's a matter of us wanting to make the game we want to make.

I only bring up our extensive experience with strategic zoom as evidence that we are not hostile to strategic zoom and that we have used it for many years now. 

On the bright side, if you consider what Homeworld 1 / Black & White to be strategic zoom then great as Ashes will likely have something at least to that degree.

I'd like you to have a short look at act of aggression. They didn't have a zoom feature, too....but now they implemented it. And they originally wanted to create a look and feel of command and conquer. For me that is a strong indication that zoom is a feature, that cant be left out anymore.

look here: http://steamcommunity.com/games/318020/announcements/detail/52141216279198541

I think absolutely when zoomed in the turrets should independentlay move, dirt should appear, damage etc and it should be my option to be able to zoom in and look at the details, especially early on.  But as this game evolves and bases become larger I envision this changing and It becoming less of a thing to want to have the user zoomed in to see all the shiny stuff.  Sup com was the same when it came out all the press was about individual animations of individual parts on units.  They even have the 360 degree view so you can look at your base from a sexy angle.  Its cool for that occasional awesome view of a spider bot slowly crawling towards a sexy base covered in sheild generators by ultimately who ever actually used it after that first time.. No one.  

It's got to look good but Ultimately cool visuals become like a background noise compared to practicality and ease of navigating the battlefield.  And currently aots is pretty bad for its navigating.  It's pretty pointless us debating it currently as our build is probably miles from what the devs are seeing.  But it's currently past the first 10 mins really easy for you to get lost and navigating around is a chore. 

With regards referencing other games, it's really the only way to explain game ideas and concepts by referencing the game your thinking about which best implemented that feature .. i don't think anyone's saying this game needs to needs to be like sup com, but sup com is currently the most popular and largest scale rts.,. and aots biggest advertisement is that it's going to be the new biggest scale rts, and that it's going to replace that game in terms of largest scale rts.  So you really can't complain if some sup com fans show up with certain expectations And in fact directly as a result of your advertising this game as the next biggest massive scale rts which was exactly how sup com advertised when it came out.   In fact if you was to take a poll I daubt there is a single person on these forums who hasn't lost a large portion of there life to sup com And I bet 95% came here with "sup com replacement ? " In there mind when they was looking at the advertisements and buying the game.  It's also important to note the wording there, replacement not clone ...I can't possibly imagine there's anyone actually on the forums demanding aots be exactly like sup com, I imagine someone though will do a mod that will do that about 10 days after you release the mod tool. 

agreed I brought pa, but haven't even loaded it up .. Just can't put my self through it .. As you say , cartoony and round maps is way to off putting. 

As soon as I heard PA had round maps I stoppled following it and have never looked back.

This is something I 100% agree with.  I also never played constantly zoomed out messing with a soup of icons.  And I know of no 1500 or above ranked player who does that.  Purely because you have to be closer to ensure your units are doing what you want (like not shooting into a hill) and more importantly to micro units, which is a big part of FAF.