Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

Olympus Class Mod

Creating a new class of ships

I have an idea for a mod which I intend to create with an additional ship class. I call this the Olympus Class. These ships would be similar to the Capital ships one would imagine where they would be nearly indestructible. These ships would have something similar to older ship styles where yes they would of course have forward cannons, but they would also specialize in broadside attacks capable of ripping a fleet to shreads. In direct combat they would be unstopable as they are essentially a huge floating mass of guns. These ships would also function as mobile starbases and as such they would be able to create a new type of fighters called Strike Craft. The one weakness (so far) of these ships would be their mobility. Directly engaging one would be suicide, but hitting it from behind could spare you. What you would have to do is position a group of capitals behind it and tell them to continuously move to avoid it from bringing the main cannons to bear. The reason that I say this is for balance issues. Regardless of cost, once you had one of these in your posession, you could simply walk through heavily fortified planets to their capital and destroy it with the main cannon. They would also have some characteristics of the capital ships in that they would also gain abilities and level up.

These massive ships would be limited to one and only one for obvious reasons. Another thing I was wondering about was: where can you build such a collosus... Well my solution is to resize the capital factory. These ships would not directly be a new class, but they would have prerequisites and such high prices (aside from being the size of a planet..) that they may as well be a new class.

These ships would also be requiring the research of the corresponding superweapon, as well as their own prototype.

Each would be centered around something related to that race.

TEC: battleship

Vasari: dreadnought

Advent: carrier

But anyways, here are some of their stats:

Trinity Blade

Forward guns: Prime Cannon, 9 StS Missile Launchers, two torpedo tubes, 12 autocannons, two uber heavy laser cannons

Both Sides: 7 very heavy laser batteries (150 per shot)

Abilities

Glory: boosts the shield regeneration and cooldown for a short period of time.

Thor Torpedoes: essentially a combo of ion bolt and missile barrage. It fires two huge torpedoes at the target. IF its not destroyed outright, it will have its abilities, weapons, and engines deactivated, and will also be nucleararily contaminated.

Return Fire: for about a minute, all recieved damage is reverted also sent to the target, and by level three, it actually doubles the damage given.

Prime Cannon: Available at level six, this unlocks the full power of the Trinity Blade. It is similar to Cleansing Brilliance. Every Passing second, it deals 1500 damage to the target, and anything in between. The beam has a duration of 15 seconds. This uses 1000 antimatter, and disables all systems after firing for 20 seconds, as well as its engines.

Judgement

Starboard: four beam cannons

Port: one beam cannon, 7 plasma cannons

Abilities

Onrush: sends forth a large group of strikecraft to deal damage for a short time

Prominence: A large plasma wave shoots off the star and into the target, dealing heavy damage and disabilizing it for awhile

Heavy Drones: slightly increases the power of the combat drones

Mass Conversion: Essentially a more powerful version of domination. It CAN take control of capital ships (I have yet to prevent it from getting the other Olympus ships though...)

Norgul Genocide

Forward: six phase missile banks, three pulse beam projectors

Both Sides: eigth plasma wave cannons

Abilities

Evacuation: Increases rate of movement for the ship by massive amounts and decreases the charge time for jumping

Colonize: Max population infrastructure instantly

Destroy Shields: Instantly destroy the shields for all the ships in an area

Genocide: Kills everyone on the planet in one fell swoop, increases your culture, and also sets planet health to 0.

Completion Guide:

Trinity Blade design: yes/Trinity Blade modeling: yes/Trinity Blade Texturing: no/Trinity Blade .entity: WiP

Judgement design: yes/Judmement modeling: yes/Judgement Texturing: yes/Judgement .entity: WiP

Norgul Genocide design: yes/Norgul Genocide modeling: no/Norgul texturing: no/Norgul .entity: WiP

Final Editing: no/Bug Checks:no/Release:no

Progress (based on completion): 33%

due to some issues, this is now incorrect...

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Well, what you want to ask yourself is could you conceivably neutralize your Olympus class cap with a fleet made with the same amount of resources? As for the abilities, I would scale back every one of them--for the broadside, I'd have 50 > 80 > 125 per cannon, I would prohibit the use of Build Frigate while moving as well as restricting the construction solely to frigates (no cruisers). Expansive shield, I would take away the damaging factor (I'm not sure if you could even code that--well, I suppose combining a Destra-like ability with the Iconus shield).

I'm not too knowledgeable about game balance, but I'm pretty sure that what you've put down would be a game breaker.

Although it'd be cool to imagine a fleet of them, lol.

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It's impossible to have a ship be able to create frigates/cruisers/capitals utilizing the standard Sins UI. That functionality is hardcoded into Frigate and Capital Factories, which are planet modules.

Expansive Shield isn't doable with the exact description you give, but you could have it increase the max shield of all friendlies by X and do Y damage to all enemies within a Z range.

Also, I'd really have to question the balance of your design. Requiring the opponent to get out of the Olympus's firing arcs seems difficult at best. As kwndnl mentioned above, there should be a method to counter this ship using something other than this ship, with a cost in the same range as the Olympus itself. Also, the fleet cap usage should be similar, the build time should be within reason, etc. etc. There's a reason why you rarely see uberships in games... because it's very, very difficult to balance them and keep them as uberships.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

I have nerfed the abilities as suggested.

Also as far as the countering it goes, perhaps it is possible to allow the super weapons to treat it as a planet and fire upon it. I am used to using a coding language called GML but I think that you could have them consider it synonomous with a hostile planetA few changes would need to be made like the speed of the bullet, but maybe it would work...If not I am taking suggestions as far as how to keep it from obliterating the enemies because yes I understand this:

1.Slow start-even game
2.Both factions are hard into the war and are balanced
3.Player one researchs long range jumps-begins to win
4.Player two reveals the reason he did not research it, unleashes his Olympus Ship
5.Player two decimates all the forces player one has and despite bombardment by the super weapons to his home planet, player two wins by a landslide.

I suppose that part of the reason I would like to do this is that I have another RT4X game called ORB. While the graphics are much worse, there are many more options such as shadow, kamakazi, aggressive, patrol these are things that I would like to see in Sins, but because of the system of the game, I see it as virtually impossible. For this reason I looked at another part of it, the Assault Carrier. These monsters did unbalance the game, but getting one was so insanely hard (without cheats) that it balanced itself out. They were not invulnerable, but one could easily obliterate the enemy base within minutes, regardless of defenses and could build smaller ships. I wanted to adapt this to the Sins universe so I nerfed it (yes these stats are super nerfed compared to the ORB counterparts) and added a few abilities, but I still wanted something that could produce smaller ships than itself that could be more effective than fighters, and the only way aside from creating frigates I guess would be to have a ton of fighters, or have a new class of fighters that are more powerful and can stand up to more punishment with the sacrifice of speed.

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Yeah, you could create two classes of strikecraft that are essentially frigates, just without abilities. Then have a big cap on the number of strikecraft allowed. That wouldn't be exactly the same, but it might do the job.

It -is- possible to balance an ubership like you've suggested... it's just a very precarious balance between "so easy to get that it's the only real strategy" and "so difficult to get you'll die every time you try". If you feel up to the challenge, go for it. I hate to discourage anyone from experimentation.

From what you've talked about ORB, it sounds like you want to add a lot of ships to Sins. It's possible, although it's not perfect by any means. I'm currently working on a modification that will have 48 ships (at least) per faction. There are a few options that this system can't do (like charge resources for the ships you build) that the developers will need to add to truly balance it... but the way I see it, the more modders that use the system and demand the fixes, the more likely it is that the fixes will be made to accommodate us.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

I like the idea of strikecraft, it does seem doable and would help with balance.

Yah I'll update that ability so it'll produce SC's instead, and I'll add some info on them.

Also, its not so much the ships, its kinda the features... ORB I think set a very VERY high benchmark for space RTS games, but so few people bought it because of a stupid name, it was never realised. When I bought Sins, really the only complaint I have is what your ships can do. The things that you can do though more than make up for it.

It has now been edited...

Edit: Well vacation was always nice, but anyways... I am currently looking at the data on the Vasari and am making some stuff for that race as well as a small amount on the advent... These updates should be up by tommorrow or Monday...

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

Well I forgot all about the Strikecraft, so here is the data, or at least the first version of it...

Strikecraft

Basic:
Appearance: Similar to the respective combat frigate
Size: similar to frigate class
AI: similar to bomber AI

Cost:
Credits: 100
Metal: 50
Crystal: 25

Weaponry:
Fore: two heavy plasma cannons.
Hull: 200
Shields: 150
AntiMatter: 90

Abilities:
Kamikaze: Simply run into the selected target at full speed. Deals twice the damage of the current hull value of the Strikecraft (ex: hull at 120, damage=240). Obviously destroys the unit.

Note: I have changed the first post to include the Strikecraft limit.

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The strike craft should be more powerful than the respective frigates due to lack of phase hardware(more room for guns)

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

I like that idea and good point, so I'll make sure to add that.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

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Wow these forums are weird, you can't edit posts (aside from first, nor can you delete them... But anyways since I can't edit it, here is the second version.

Well I forgot all about the Strikecraft, so here is the data, or at least the first version of it...

Strikecraft

Basic:
Appearance: Similar to the respective combat frigate
Size: similar to frigate class
AI: similar to bomber AI

Cost:
Credits: 100
Metal: 50
Crystal: 25

Weaponry:
Fore: two heavy plasma cannons.
Port/Starboard: one missile pod, one heavy pulse laser

Vital Stats:
Hull: 200
Shields: 150
AntiMatter: 90

Abilities:
Kamikaze: Simply run into the selected target at full speed. Deals twice the damage of the current hull value of the Strikecraft (ex: hull at 120, damage=240). Obviously destroys the unit.

Also if there are any stats I am forgeting, please tell me.

So yah there is the edited version of it... so could anyone say something about the abilities, or how to use them? I guess maybe make it so they are not AI, but rather human controlled, but then that would basically make them frigates...Help addressing this problem would be appreciated.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

Understand that I copied, pasted it and edited the weapon section, so there are a few parts that don't belong...

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

Well I have started modeling the Trinity Blade, and I now have a counterpart, Soviet911v2. He is working on the Judgement (Advent).

I'l try to get some screen shots of the models when I can...

Also, the Vasari ship is undecided as far as the name goes, though I have a basic design idea...

This mod [should] include a new race as well. They may not come until the second version however and the following version would also hold another race.

The first is called the Wind Fleet. They are designed for simply outnumbering the enemy. Everything is cheap and fast, but that comes at a very heft cost of power..

The second is called the Tempest Fleet. These are definately a tanking race. For them, if they can survive the first half, they are almost guaranteed to win. The reason is that despite their numbers being few, they are outragesouly powerful. This of course will be offset by fleetcost and simply monetary value.

If I get the time I may integrate a few maps as well, but I would not recommend counting on it.

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'Capturing' a shipyard seems like a very bad idea to me. It should take a LOT of effort to build one of these.

I compare the Olympus Class to the Titans in AOM (and, I suppose the Titans from EVE-Online):

The Titan Gate (Titan spawning place) was only unlocked at the highest tier of research, and it took like 30 villagers and a lot of time to construct it, although this wasn't much of a problem as you had most of your buildings constructed by then.

What I think should happen is that you should pick a world to 'militarize' and dedicate the planet for a little while to constructing this thing. This prevent you from getting Crystal, Metal, or credits from this planet, too. If possible, the building animation should be of a massive station in space constructing this thing.

Anyways, in AOM everyone was notified at every milestone of construction, such as 25%, 50%, 75% and 90% of completion.

You've got power and speed down (or lack there of), but you must include a design flaw. Sins doesn't have programmable hardpoints, if that's what you're thinking.

This design flaw is: It will die on its own. You must make sure that even if it is supposed to be an uber-godmoddy ship, that if you do not have at least a taskforce backing it up it will meet its certain death.

The StrikeCraft are pushing it. You should probably change the name, too, as that's what Sins already calls the normal fighters/bombers.

These things should be more like support craft, therefore smaller, faster, and a bit weaker. They should be designed with a purpose in mind; not like the faction's default frigate.

Perhaps these ships should employ drones instead?

Is a new race really necessary? You came here looking to add titans to the game, and now your perspectives have shifted a bit. Wind and Tempest Fleet... are these going to be renegade factions, by any chance? The names seem generic enough to be.

I smell Zerg tactics with the Wind fleet, so take caution there.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

Well the races are actually a spinoff of a game I'm making. In the other one (Dawn War) they are controlled by one person (or I guess thing). They are not neccessary no, but I would certainly like to add them Mentioning those was more of a preview than here, I'm working on it now sort of thing...

Also the Trinity Blade is a battleship. It is designed for direct combat. But I am going to soon change prime cannon so that it fires at ships rather than planets. It will be a souped up version of Cleansing Brilliance... So the drawback would be that yes it would be possible to overwhelm, but is not able to attack planets well plus its heavy cannons (all) would have the "Can attack Strike craft: false" making bombers very effecive. Others like the Vasari, will be planet annihilators, and the Judgement is a carrier. Each fits the type of race it is associated with. And think of it this way: Trinity Blade beats Vasari, Vasari beats Judgement, Judgement beats trinity blade. Its your traditional combat triangle. And I don't just mean that this applies only to the ships, but to the entire race as well. The Advent's tons of fighters would fair much much better against the TB than would the Vasari...

Also no they aren't renegade factions, as I said above in the Dawn War, their counterparts were controlled by one character. In sins of course, they will be different.

Also, what in the world is Zerg Tactics? Is it some game with something called the Wind or what? Is it something about the fact that they rush? because I would think that wouldn't have associations with anything.

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Also, what in the world is Zerg Tactics? Is it some game with something called the Wind or what? Is it something about the fact that they rush? because I would think that wouldn't have associations with anything.

It's a reference to StarCraft. The Zerg race dealt mostly in numbers (cause they have pretty weak units) so most of the time you just spammed them. But I digress... I just came in here to ask how the progress for the models has come along.

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lol

On March 31, 2008, a little game called StarCraft was released. Ask around here about it.

Anyways, I'm not asking you to not employ it in direct combat, but this thing should be able to be avoided by an opposing strike force and should be able to be taken down by a navy you'd find close to the endgame, or at least be heavily damaged.

The ship should not be invincible at all.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

Well its not invincible, and now that I have just "finished" the model, I was looking at it and discovered just how vulnerable this thing is. For this thing the bigger the numbers, the more destruction it can reap. However, all weapons have extremely small firing arcs, so smaller forces would actually be the most devastating to one by itself. The Judgement is at least half done with the modeling. It has many small light cannons, but the only strong "weapon" is an ability called Prominence. The two are almost polar opposites. The TB can kill just about anything in its path, but without the ability to kill fighters, the Judgement could wreak havoc on one that is alone. With escorts of course all ships become harder to kill because they balance out each other's weaknesses.
Also CanadaMan777, here are a few pics:

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Switch off wireframe when posting piccys

And use better lighting (dosn't the headlight thing fix that? I don't use XSI).

It looks like it will float well in a swimming pool.

I joke, I like the guns.

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Wow! Those are great!

Just a little thought I had; Big ships like these are usually characterized by their length, and less girth-wise.

Not much else criticism, though, I love what you've done so far.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

I know you should deactivate the frame yes, but without textures, shadows make it near impossible to see the details.

Dec42: Thank you very much! I've spent quite a while on it to make it work properly.

Also yes I know, but I've had this design for about a year and wanted to keep it...

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thought I had; Big ships like these are usually characterized by their length, and less girth

I like the Marza as it is in the stock SINS fileset... ...as it's supposed to be a leaf or something (like the advent's big leaf ship

This way, when you build a lot of them and attack, you can taunt the enemy saying that autumn has arrived

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

lol!!

wow... yah I guess you could say that. In a minute I'll try to get some weapon lists on here...

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lol, It was just a suggestion. Volt, I loved the design of the ship anyways, and this is your mod, so you should keep it if you like it.

What program did you use, by the way?

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

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I used XSI. Oh wow, it is SO much easier than any cad program...I did in about 10 hours what would have taken me 50ish in Solidworks or some other autocad program...

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Hallo, Here are some screens of what the Advent Judgment will look like, it will be very pouwer ship and carrier, Its weakness is that its strongest weapon is on one side, its a compressed sphere of plasma which can deal alot of damage but only to that one side, so if u want to defeat the ship u want to stear ur forces onthe other side of it or something like that. eather case here are the screen shots at this stage. Its will have about 12 fighter or striker cafts on it, the second part of the ship will be holding those (the small one) the other side holds the sphere. anyway enjoy.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

Nice job Soviet. Yes the plasma ball is going to be a smaller version of the star meshes. While it is powerful with its plasma cannons, its fighters are what really make it powerful and a force to be reckoned with. It is MUCH faster than the TB and can actually outrun some capital ships. However, because of its long design, it is very slow at turning.

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