Do you feel that updates take away more than they add?

I'd much rather see balance improvements. The game is already finely user friendly. Balance can always be tweaked, though.

I'd like to see both. There are a lot of UI issues that could stand to be improved, but fine tuning balance issues is essential to the longterm health of the game.

For instance, the very vocally disappointed Mr. Toaddog said that he had just about played this game out 4 weeks after its release. And why was this so? Well, he had found a one size fits all "strat", the +15 PQ ability, and as far he's concerned, he's "beaten" the game (although his metaverse scores argue differently).

Similarly, a lot of people found that the secret to blasting through the higher level AIs was either tech whoring like crazy since the AIs both didn't trade aggressively amongst themselves and secondarily are more than happy to purchase themselves into complete economic collapse, or the culture bombing route which even at higher AI levels isn't noticed until you've done a lot of damage. Blam, we see both of these "guaranteed" wins balanced out better in the latest patch.

Such changes actually open up more strategies than they take away. You can't depend on just bumping *all* your planets to 20+ as soon as you get habitat improvement to erase all your morale problems for the rest of the game. You can't depend on your ability to horde/whore techs anymore because the AI will fall for it less which makes them play better. You can't just culture bomb the heck out of the map because SBs now incur a minor maintenance charge that adds up if you're doing so (plus the proximity factor makes you go more slowly).

It gives a lot more than it takes away - all three of those things are still perfectly valid ways to play the game and gain advantages, they're just not total solutions to winning in and of themselves any more.

I concur. Othertimes I go for a tech victory. Sometimes even cultural. Depends on my mood.

Get it?!?!

ahahahahah I kill me

I have "beaten" Civ and civ 2 but I still play it. (same for many other games.) what is the mindset of those who "beat" a game then move on? I play for the fun not just to beat a thing. If people play a game so much they get bored perhaps they should play a few other games (rotate) or find some other activities to supplement computer gaming.
sermon over. sorry. have to go. besides, Bobo is telling me he wants his fruit now.

The is of course, the Paradox Syndrome (as in the makers of Europa Universalis, etc.), which is when the developer releases updates almost specifically to make the game more challenging for the advanced players without keeping the game accessible to more casual players.

I think as long as Brad keeps things easy on the casual player at lower settings, everything will be fine. I've had to impose restraints on myself to keep from tech whoring, starbase spamming, and all the rest.

Having those things addressed in the code itself is, in my opinion, a wonderful step forward ... and I can't wait to see more of it!

Code Monkey,

Let Mr Toaddog speak for himself, ok.

Is this a hard thing to see.

I don't want you speaking for me ok.

Afetr you can go fuck yourself.

I don't think that anything has been 'taken away' from me with the patches that have been released. Every patch has improved different aspects of the game thusfar. Some cheesetactics were eliminated, great, who needs them?

Like Yin says, the game is still very accessible for casual gamers (even more than in the beginning) but the challenge for the higher levels gets constantly bigger, which is a good thing IMHO.

Guys, please don't turn this civilized board into a personal flamewar! Use e-mail or phone for that.

IMO, patches and updates should be to fix problems and balance issues, NOT add features. That is what the upcoming expansion is for.. as well as MODS. That they have taken the time to indeed add some new content is awesome. But I don't expect it. In fact, if the next couple of patches ONLY focused on fixing some of the still present issues, and added NO extra content, I would be well pleased.

fleabitfox

"The is of course, the Paradox Syndrome (as in the makers of Europa Universalis, etc.), which is when the developer releases updates almost specifically to make the game more challenging for the advanced players without keeping the game accessible to more casual players."

I don't see this happening with GalCiv right now (which may have been your point.) The changes that are being made to balance are things that if amateur players WERE using them, they wouldn't be amateur players anymore.

So far all we've really seen is nerfs of 'ultimate' strats. Strats so effective that they win every time.

If the AI were using these strats against the players, we'd ALL be very glad they were being nerfed.

"In fact, if the next couple of patches ONLY focused on fixing some of the still present issues, and added NO extra content, I would be well pleased.". Don't agree. Let them (= Brad and his team) decide, they know the best when and how things can and will be implemented. Tweaking the game is (mostly) based upon our input, adding new things more or less also. Which means, this community has alot to say in how this game will develop. They do a great job, not everything is directly improvable. Stand behind them and we all will be very happy and satisfied customers for a long time to come. And I agree with Lord, no flamewars please.

BTW, LordTheRon, it's time you join the European Empire

Yeah I think I'll just do that now. My Age of Wonderers civ isn't really coming off the ground anyways.

It's funny that people are complaining that the developers are working on improving the game.

The game is generally getting better with the subsequent releases. And it's also worthy of note that the developers are catering a lot to the advanced players, and not the average person who perhaps buys the game and never reads these forum messages or never even upgrades from version 1.0.

Most developers don't care about the advanced players, they just want to sell many copies to a mass audience.

I guess when a game publisher has access to mass distribution channels, they don't have to worry about the advanced player. When a game publisher is relying on word of mouth, as StarDock is, then they have to make sure the word of mouth is good, so they need to cater to the vocal users who spread the gospel.

Toaddog, profanity bites. I just read this thread and noticed your post in it, about speaking for yourself. You'd stated yourself very well until the profanity hit. Refrain from it for everybody else's sake, or find a more polite way to voice your anger/displeasure/dissapointment/personal attack/whatever.

I'm not a moderator, just a user that has found this to be one of the best boards for a game ever, and don't want it brought down.

I mean, do you see anybody from Stardock using profanity? No.

Thank you.

Damian

~SDC~