Is there any difference between planet quality and morale?

Planet quality is MUCH better as it also increase your max population and max production. This allows much higher tax income and higher trade income.

paul.

~SDC~

Are you saying that 10% quality increase is much better than 10% moral increase? It could be, but my question is if they are different at all. It is quite possible that 10% quality increase is equivelent to 20% of moral increase, but are there differences? They both increase population and as a result increase the production and taxes.

YES.

10% quality improvement is much much better than 10% moral improvement. Planet quality is the most important fundamental attribute in the game. Consider what type of victory you're trying for.

Cultural -> planet quality affects influence.
Technology -> planet quality affects max technology production
Military -> planet quality affects max industrial production

Moral just helps keep you population happy and let you run at a higher tax rate. Even at a lower tax rate, a higher class planet will out produce a lower class planet.

Paul.

~SDC~

Well, I agree that 10% quality is better than 10% of morale. But what I am trying to understand is the following:

BOTH planet quality and morale lead to the population increase, that means that they both lead for production tax and science increase. There might be some exchange rate like 1% of quality is as if you have 2% of moral increase.

The question is if the proportion of population increase/production increase/science output increase/tax increase is different for quality and morale.

As for the culture increase, this might be it. However I have seen the stars with very bad planets but with very high influence, and vice verse. So I am not sure that quality gives the influence increase.

You are totally not getting this concept.

You're trying to compare apples to oranges, and it wont work.

PQ affects maximums, Morale affects currents. PQ really only matters to morale when you either have a really crappy planet < 15, or are dealing with overcrowding.

You could have a class 50 planet, but if your morale is at 1%, you wont be producing jack. Likewise, you could get 100% Morale on a class 15 planet, and still not be producing jack.

~SDC~

Well… There is a chance that I am “totally not getting this concept”, and this is why I wrote the initial post.

However your explanations are exactly how I understand this. The maximum is the planet quality, and the rate of population increase is the moral. But when you increase the maximum, you do increase the rate as well. So the question is if there is a difference of how I increase the rate, directly through the morale, or indirectly through the maximum increase/planet quality. And I would say that there is none, unless the planet quality has other effects than maximum increase.

Mathematically, I would guess that

PopulationIncreaseRate = C1*(PopulationMaximum – C2*CurrentPopulation) + MoraleBonus

Here C1 and C2 are some, unknown to me, constants, which values are not important for this discussion

I can rewrite this as

PopulationIncreaseRate = C1*(PopulationMaximum + MoraleBonus/C1 – C2*CurrentPopulation)

So at least according to this equations the population maximum (i.e. planet quality) increase has EXACTLY the same effect as the morale bonus increase divided by C1, because these two values are just added, and there is no difference between which value is modified – the result is still the same.

It's more along these lines, from what I can tell:

PopulationIncreaseRate = C1*(CurrentPopulation/PopulationMaximum)*(Morale/100-.5)*CurrentPopulation

which also explains why extremely populous planets can still have unwieldy population growth at 51% morale.

~SDC~

Arturus, excellent answer!

It is interesting that population growth is quadratic with respect to current population. I would say this is somewhat unrealistic, but the rules are the rules…

However, this formula still can not explain if morale bonus and planet quality are different things. Do you (or anyone else) know how morale is calculated? And where do you get this information? Are you a developer?

MxM

'It is interesting that population growth is quadratic with respect to current population. I would say this is somewhat unrealistic, but the rules are the rules…'

Well, real life would seem to suggest otherwise. Population tends to increase faster when there are more people around to reproduce, unless someone tries to force the issue, like China has been for a while. If it were otherwise, the overpopulation issue that is an off-and-on thing in the news wouldn't be too much (or rather too immediate) of a concern.

It's certainly not exponential, but definately more than a simple linear equation too.

'Do you (or anyone else) know how morale is calculated?'

Morale is a very difficult thing to quantify, because it takes into account five or six different factors, from what I can tell. The biggest two, though, are Planet Quality and Population, which is why a number of people have been suggesting that Planet Quality is better, as it also affects the Population level needed to start reducing morale.

'And where do you get this information? Are you a developer?'

I was one of the beta testers, and most of the information I have is borne from experience. I know that formula isn't quite accurate, because something was done to blunt population growth somewhat at the high extreme just before release, but it still seems to be accurate as an estimate through the majority part of the game.

~SDC~

/Quote

'It is interesting that population growth is quadratic with respect to current population. I would say this is somewhat unrealistic, but the rules are the rules…'

Well, real life would seem to suggest otherwise. Population tends to increase faster when there are more people around to reproduce, unless someone tries to force the issue, like China has been for a while. If it were otherwise, the overpopulation issue that is an off-and-on thing in the news wouldn't be too much (or rather too immediate) of a concern.

It's certainly not exponential, but definately more than a simple linear equation too.

Quote/

I probably did not express myself clearly.

If the population increase rate is linearly proportional to the population itself, then the population is exponential as a function of time.

If the population growth is proportional to the square of the population, then the population grows actually much faster then the exponent. In fact at some point in time, the population value goes to infinity for this dependence (assuming that the rest of the coefficients, such as morel are constant). This is why I said that it is strange – it is too rapid growth.

Mathematically, if

PopulationRate=C1*Population^2

Then

Population = 1/(C2-C1*t )

Where C2 is some constant, which depends on initial conditions (population at t=0), and t is the time.

As you can see this is quite strong dependence, and I would expect that they have to do something at high population values to smooth it down, and, as you mentioned, they actually did it.

/Quote

'Do you (or anyone else) know how morale is calculated?'

Morale is a very difficult thing to quantify, because it takes into account five or six different factors, from what I can tell. The biggest two, though, are Planet Quality and Population, which is why a number of people have been suggesting that Planet Quality is better, as it also affects the Population level needed to start reducing morale.

Quote/

Still, I would appreciate if you can give an approximate dependence of morale on just Planet Quality and Population.

MxM

FYI: The new %0 population growth cutoff is now at 58%. It was at 50%.

And to help answer your initial question...

Planet Quality also affects tax revinue and acts like a flat bonus. If you start the game on a size 16 planet, you have a lower first-turn income than you would if you started on a size 20 planet (around 11 bc vs. 14 bc).

- Nobody

In addition, PQ also affects morale directly. Just check the morale of a planet before and after you build Soil Improvement.

Quite natural. I know I'd rather live on a PQ 35 Eden rather than a PQ 8 Nifelheim that our shitty leader decided we had to hold in order for OTHER people to get to those yellow stars just out of reach ... *grumble*



~SDC~

/Quote by Nobody

Planet Quality also affects tax revenue and acts like a flat bonus. If you start the game on a size 16 planet, you have a lower first-turn income than you would if you started on a size 20 planet (around 11 bc vs. 14 bc).

Quite/

Nobody,

Did you have the same population for those two planets? I suspect that it might be the difference in starting population being larger for better planets. But if it is was the same, does anyone know how income is calculated?

/Quote by matso

In addition, PQ also affects morale directly. Just check the morale of a planet before and after you build Soil Improvement.

/Quote

Yep, but so does the morale improvement buildings. They also affect the morale directly. What I am trying to find are those additional effects by PQ improvement that are not accessibly by morale improvement

So far the following differences are possible:

1) Due to quadratic dependence of the growth rate on population, the planets with higher PQ tend to reach max population faster
2) There could be some dependence of economic output on PQ, so that planets with the same population, but different PQ have different economic output. (Unconfirmed)

Another way to consider this topic is to think about two planets, one planet has high population due to PQ, and another planet has high population due to high moral bonuses. If the population is the same on both planets, will the be differences in the planets output?

MxM

The population was the standard 1 billion you always start with.

'Still, I would appreciate if you can give an approximate dependence of morale on just Planet Quality and Population.'

This equation is quite definately exponential, and likely tied to MaxPopulation. I've been planning on compiling a listing of the max populations of various planet classes, but I can try to work out the Morale setup at the same time.

As a rough estimate, a class 15 with no morale modifiers and a population of 100M would usually have a morale of about 40%. On a class 20, that same condition would likely result in a 100% morale. A class 1 would almost never have a morale higher than 50% regardless of its population or bonuses. (The best I saw for a c1 was 50% at a population of 1M, and that was with +160% morale bonus.)

'Another way to consider this topic is to think about two planets, one planet has high population due to PQ, and another planet has high population due to high moral bonuses. If the population is the same on both planets, will the be differences in the planets output?'

Under those conditions, the higher class planet would have the higher output, assuming your spending rate allowed for it, and a higher tax income, unless morale is abysmal for some reason.

Given similar conditions, a higher class planet will outperform a lower class one.

~SDC~

Arturus,

Please share the compiled list when you finish, that could be quite interesting. You can also collect the rest of the parameters, such as production, research, economy and population increase rate . That will be some data crunching!