Timmaigh

Join Date 05/2009

+76

Modding Vasari Loyalists

So i have been thinking recently about trying to mod VLs to fit better my view of them, or better, how i think they should look in possible Sins 2. I have no modding experience so far, beyond building ship models, but i was thinking i might give it a try, but first i need to know, if some things are possible, whether its basically worth that try...

So the main idea is letting you starting with a Vorastra instead of planet. So you go mobile from the get go, instead of working toward it and then never do it (cause lets be honest, its kinda sad to scuttle your nicely built empire, additionally you almost never have to against AI and against humans, when you are forced to do that, the game is most likely all but lost)...

1. So here you start with a Titan, at first without weapons and maybe abilities. These would be enabled with that four-stage research, obviously the price of building of a Titan for other races and time needed to do it would have to be compensated here... is this possible to do?

2. The Titan would probably need to generate the money, like other capital planets do...is that doable?

3. I was thinking about replacing Desperation with a ship constructing (or better said summoning) ability, is it possible to use that one button on UI in place of Desperation icon for opening the same submenu, like you have on shipyard? I mean you click on it, it goes one level "deeper" in the UI hierarchy and shows you those Frigate/Cruiser/CapShip icons? So you can basically build the exact unit you want (like in case of shipyard)? The Dark Fleet Beacon/Spawn Phase Stabiliser would stay, the difference would be you can summon more ships at once, but cant choose...so no redundancy here. Bottom line, is that workable?

4. I suppose, this was already talked before, but would it be possible to link the Maw to Stripping? I would like to make Titan to target/strip planets, even if the whole vortex animation had to take those 240 seconds...

I need to think more about the rest of the gameplay mechanics, you would probably need to colonize planets anyway and build the labs to work toward complete mobility (Civiilan Evacuation, ShipBoard labs, Dark Fleet Beacon,SttC) like normally. I was thinking possibly about making the Migrator to construct all the orbital structures, like in case of Orkulus...could that be done? In turn, you would not be able to build structures from the planetary menu, they would become completely planet independent. Every colonized planet would be then by default stripped from the moment of colonization, but the process would take way longer (say 20 minutes) and give you money/resources throughout like with tax income, only difference this way it would finish at certain point and would not grow with population or anything. Ideally, i could see the planet at the end of the process to turn into moon instead of dead asteroid (but keep its size) and then the other factions to have some kind of terraforming ability to restore them to earth-like status. What do you think?

Thanks in advance for your advices/suggestions.

modding

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

So the main idea is letting you starting with a Vorastra instead of planet.

At the start you need to have a planet. Until you research the tech that allows you to survive without planets, you will lose the game, and there is no way to give the player that tech until after the game has started.

2. The Titan would probably need to generate the money, like other capital planets do...is that doable?

Yes.

ability, is it possible to use that one button on UI in place of Desperation icon for opening the same submenu, like you have on shipyard?

Nope. Only shipyards and starbases can do that, and shipyards will not work unless they're around a planet you own. Best you could do is let them use Returning Armada without research, but then they can get heavy cruisers and carriers without research. Or give them a special starbase to do it, but it will share the starbase limit with the orky.

Sadly not, us modders have been asking for it since Maw was revealed. That will make it impossible to force the player to strip worlds, though I suppose you could give them massive penalties to normal tax and resource generation. AI won't like that though.

I was thinking possibly about making the Migrator to construct all the orbital structures, like in case of Orkulus...could that be done?

You can spawn labs like the Vorastra spawns phase stabilizer nodes, but it is impossible to tie this in to any sort of planet logistic slots. You might be best just giving them a capitalship to start with the capitalship lab techs present without research (I know it must sound weird, but that is one research bonus you can give to players without them needing to research it).

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Timmaigh

Join Date 05/2009

+76

Thanks Goa!

So you say, you cant make the condition switched on normally by Mobile Rulership tech to work from the start of the game without need to research it?

The thing with shipbuilding for Titan is disappointing, although i am not surprised.

Dont really understand the thing with Maw...specifically the part "impossible to force the player to strip worlds,etc.." what do you mean? Anyway, does it mean, its technically impossible (to set up all the needed entities and buffs and what not to get desired effect)? Or its more about the implication of such move in regard to rest of the rest game mechanics and the way the AI works?

What does it mean you can spawn labs without tying it to planetary logistic slots? That its possible to do, but you could build spawn infinite number of them in a single gravity well? And you can have shiplabs from the without need to research, but not the Mobile Rulership? Why is that?

Seems my excellent plans get some serious drawbacks

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Quoting Timmaigh,

reply 2

So you say, you cant make the condition switched on normally by Mobile Rulership tech to work from the start of the game without need to research it?

Yes, you can make it a free tech researched instantly with 1 lab, but the player won't have it at game start, so you'll get an instant defeat on start if you don't give them a planet.

Quoting Timmaigh,

reply 2

Anyway, does it mean, its technically impossible (to set up all the needed entities and buffs and what not to get desired effect)? Or its more about the implication of such move in regard to rest of the rest game mechanics and the way the AI works?

It is technically impossible, because remember stripped to the core is NOT an ability, which would have allowed it to work. It is a research, and the modifier to allow striped to the core is hard coded to trigger on when you scuttle a planet. So the only way a planet can ever be stripped is if the player intentional scuttles it, and there is no way to force the player to do so. And the AI won't ever scuttle a planet in the first place, which is why it never uses StC.

Quoting Timmaigh,

reply 2

That its possible to do, but you could build spawn infinite number of them in a single gravity well?

Yes. You might be able to create artificial limits with ability magic but then the AI won't understand it.

Quoting Timmaigh,

reply 2

And you can have shiplabs from the without need to research, but not the Mobile Rulership? Why is that?

It's complicated, but basically any research that is a "Yes/No" research, like ship unlocks or mobile ruleship cannot be given to the player before hand. Mods like my Enhanced 4X mod that do give research bonuses without them needing to be researched are basically using a mechanism in an unintended way to get that to work, but it does not work with the Boolean "Yes/No" bonuses, so I couldn't say get the Vasari to colonize Volcanic planets without research either.

Quoting Timmaigh,

reply 2

Seems my excellent plans get some serious drawbacks

The secret to modding is to have a general goal ("Encourage the Vasari Loyalists to be fully Nomadic"), rather than make elaborate plans with very specific ways you want them to work. Once you get an idea of what mechanisms you have available to use in modding, you usually have enough options to rig up something that advances your goal, though it may not always be the most direct or natural way of doing it.

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