cs17519

Join Date 12/2012

Phase lines and 3D Universe

A few suggestions for Sins2:

Phase lines make no sense. In space, you can fly in direct lines from point to point except to avoid storms or planets or stars or other phenomena. But, generally speaking, flying from planet to planet within a solar system makes sense. Phase lines don't, really. I realize they add a strategic component to the game but I don't think it fits within the fictional universe very well. A universe that makes no sense isn't fun. I do basically agree with a single phase line between star systems, that seems to make more sense than between planets.

Regarding planetary systems in the game, they're all based on a flat 2d plane. That's not realistic either. They should all be 3d around their parent star, with some of the planets with different orbits, speeds, and even some outside the primary elliptical plane. Furthermore, the planets should rotate around their star, like any planet does. Flying time from planet A to B would not necessarily be the same from one time to the next due to constantly varying distances.

More variant star types, including where the color of the star also determines the relative star size (red being very large, blue being very small) double stars, moons, nebulas, black holes, and other universal phenomena would all be nice additions too!

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They tried to do that when they first concieved of the game but they realized that it would horribly hard to even adapt it for any form of gameplay to be fun.

Besides it's just a sci-fi thing.

I mean Star Wars has hyperspace lanes.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Phase lanes aren't physical distances, phase drives work by cutting through a different dimension (phase space). So they're purely symbolic anyways, even according to the lore.

A universe that makes no sense isn't fun.

Hardly, very realistic universes often take out a lot of the fun. As mentioned the very early beta of original Sins had orbiting planets and was supposed to be very realistic. It was apparently so bad they decided to do a 180 despite the orbiting planets being a big promise of the game at first.

Also, very few sci-fi games have anything resembling realistic features. Newtonian physics are a &$@#!, not the least because every ship in Sins, Star Wars and Star Trek couldn't possibly work because they don't have any front or side engines.

As for more realistic planets themselves, check out mods like infinite space.

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By realistic I mean realistic enough to know that planets orbit stars and move. This is a super-basic thing. Faster than light travel does not exist (yet). But planets definitely move.

I understand that mechanics sometimes have to be changed to accommodate game play but I'd still like to see orbiting planets.

And as long as you brought up Star Trek, depending on the model of ship, thrusters are located all over the place and the impulse drive's principle is never really explained but it doesn't necessarily work like a thruster where it has to be pointed in opposite direction of where it is supposed to go. For warp drive, in some of the episodes/movies, it appears they must stop and turn but most seem to indicate that it can change direction during warp. It has not been consistent.

I'm not a big Star Wars fan though. I always thought those movies were watchable but a little silly. I guess Star Trek had its silly moments too though.

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Quoting Rovert10,

reply 1

They tried to do that when they first concieved of the game but they realized that it would horribly hard to even adapt it for any form of gameplay to be fun.

Besides it's just a sci-fi thing.

I mean Star Wars has hyperspace lanes.

I don't remember Star Wars ever saying you had to go to object A to B to C instead of A to C. I never got into Star Wars that much though beyond watching the movies.

Yea, like I told GoaFan77, if ya have to do it, ya have to do it, but it's one of those mechanics I think could be well done with some thought. Perhaps in the future.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

I realize they add a strategic component to the game but I don't think it fits within the fictional universe very well. A universe that makes no sense isn't fun. I do basically agree with a single phase line between star systems, that seems to make more sense than between planets.

So because the game has phase lines and you can't just fly from any one planet to another, the game isn't fun? Gotcha.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Quoting Apheirox,

reply 6

quoting post
I realize they add a strategic component to the game but I don't think it fits within the fictional universe very well. A universe that makes no sense isn't fun. I do basically agree with a single phase line between star systems, that seems to make more sense than between planets.

So because the game has phase lines and you can't just fly from any one planet to another, the game isn't fun? Gotcha.

I don't think he said that, he just thinks it would make it better.

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Thanks GoaFan77, that is exactly what i meant.

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The idea of each "location" being a planet always seemed like a compromise of some sort to me. A bit of history: Pax Imperia 2: Eminent Domain had a similar map, although the nodes were star systems instead of planets. Each star had multiple orbiting planets, most of which were colonizable. Astrographically, it was very impressive and intellectually consistent. Unfortunately, it was designed in a much earlier era, and other limitations (AI capabilities and fleet strength) were severely constrained by available computing power. Sins is an improvement in every way, except for the map (well, and the tech tree too, but that's another story).

I don't have as much of a problem with the idea of warp lines/phase lanes/grav bands/whatever, in part because Weber and Campbell (the "Big Two" of military sci fi these days), both have created universes where these are the primary means of interstellar travel. I have in the past, however, played Masters of Orion 2, which did not use the concept of warp lines, and did not find it to be a significantly different experience. For the gamer, it's just one way of measuring distance vs. another, and net net they both work out about the same.

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