Valid point.

@Goa: Along the lines of what you were saying, what if the base income was stolen, but the capital planet bonus income wasn't?  That way, on say, Point Blank, you still get a Terran/Desert worth of tax, but not the extra amount that allows for empire building?

That more or less sums it up.

Also, I HATE with a fiery passion rush games. I think they defeat the entire purpose of playing a game with the scope of SINS and they take about 2 brain cells, most of the time, to properly execute. So I will always be AGAINST rush abilities and FOR abilities that scale well into the late game.

By the way there is no significant counter to the Sova when using Advent, I would avoid Advent like the plague until something is done to balance the game back out.

Radiance needs a clear direct shot to be efficient, but if the sova is running about, it will be quite hard. Plus, even if you manage to force the Sova to retreat, he will repair and come back, and if he brings a fleet, your kinda left with a useless capital ship, (for multiplayer anyway) 

Only way advent can counter the Sova by THEORY is by drain antimatter ability for disciples however, they require the antimatter to be transferred and emptied from there reserves before they can take more in. You could use your dicicples to transfer anti matter to your capital ship, but this hasent been tested yet.

In regards to the Radiance, I once made a mod that causes all ships affected by Animosity to take 5/10/15 DPS.  It's not much, but if you made SC sensitive to it... You'd make enemy SC die in droves, meaning that all the Sova would be doing is sitting there stealing some of your income.  The main thing after all that prevents strategies isn't the counter itself.  It's the threat of the counter.  If people knew that a Radiance could destroy the Sova rush, they wouldn't do it.  So, if we buffed the Radiance in some way that made it relatively pointless as anything other than a cap slayer.  I guess DAM could have longer range, but I still would love Animosity to do something...  Maybe it would have a longer range and make targets fly towards the Radiance where it can unleash DAM and wipe out abilities (and a good chunk of health).  In a way, it would be the opposite of repulse, allowing you to stop retreats (or kiting) by pulling them towards you.

Also, Disciples only steal from frigates and structures.

My changes would really only put the game in the 1-2 hr range. An effective Embargo HW strategy can bring 1 team to a halt and easily finish a 1 vs 1 in 15-30 Mins.

I also like games in the 1.5-2 Hr range, thats all I can steal away from the family before my 18 month old is jumping up and down on my lap at the computer.

That'd also be an interesting way to make up for the Radiance's weakness to strikecraft because it has so few of its own.

Ok, Blackhawk and I did some tests and the problem with the Sova Embargo rush is simply that any ship capable of catching up to the Sova gets eaten alive by the ensuing LRM spam.  With that in mind what needs to happen is a reduction in speed while Embargo is active.  I'm thinking to something around 350 instead of the current 525. 

Thoughts?

Also, cooldown time needs to be extended, that or activation duration needs reduced.  Being a tunneling ability would also help (think Ion bolt, phase out hull, etc).

I do think that if speed of ship while embargo is active is reduced embargo as ability will become useless. As you aren't able to turn it of or on and while cap becomes extremely slow it will be easy to snipe off.

I think right path to fix ability is in a way to delay when you can get lvls that really hurt if you are getting rushed.

I'm still not sold on the channeling.  I still think the best way is to counter the Sova, not nerf Embargo.

I'm still working on that   But you assume that I'm trying to build a fleet to counter a ship.  Not so much...

Okay, so once again..  The Sova is powerful because:

1. it produces SC for no AM cost

2. it can steal an entire homeworld's worth of income

3. it has a lot of health

4. it can kite while still being all of the above

5. it can create a small static fleet

So..  That means we need something powerful and fast to out-run and out-gun it.  Other capitals have lots of power, but not the SC unless they too are carriers, at which point the Sova will still win due to a war of attrition.  LRF have a lot of power, but don't do so well with chasing.  LF are fast and decently powerful, but get torn apart by LRF (which everyone and their brother will be building masses of anyways).  Flak don't fit the bill at all.

I suppose there are two way here:

1. give the other races something long range that can stop the Sova in it's tracks/stop embargo

2. buff LF from 50% damage against capitals to 100% or something.  This could throw balance out the window in other regards, but it honestly might not since LF still get shredded by LRF.  (That, and I've always wondered how the thing that is made to take down heavy armor is less effective against heavier armor than something made for medium armor).

Since I think we want to stay away from 2 because of the can of worms it opens up, let's investigate 1.  What abilities could potentially put a stop to this?  I can already think of two that could possibly do so in one form or another: Gravity Bomb and Detonate Antimatter.

In both cases, you have to get in range, but once you do, I think it should be significantly easier for you to take down the Sova.  GB halts it's movements and DAM halts embargo and those pesky missile platforms.  In both cases, it comes down to acquiring a target in range.  This could be done by increasing their range.  I'm not going to say that this is a perfect solution and could have ramifications elsewhere, but I think it's something we should at least consider, if only to disregard later.

My problem with channeling is that the Sova is already a piece of junk in the late game. If it's channeling, the ability becomes absolutely worthless after the very beginning of the game.

I cautioned what could happen to balance if you buffed LF that much.  Still though, it was just something I was thinking about.

Well, the Radiance still spits out decent DPS early on and increasing the range of DAM would make it a better cap-slayer, which is always a good thing to have around.