lbgsloan

Join Date 04/2008

+10

Visari weapon types and possible changes

Each race generally has three 'main' weapon types that can be upgraded. With TEC and Advent, these weapon types are generally fairly balanced among their unit types, giving you a few different 'builds' to choose from early game if trying to maximize research efficiency.

TEC:

Laser (4)- LF, caps, SB, support cruisers

Autocannon (4)- Flak, HCs, caps, fighters

Missiles (5)- LRF, caps, SB, bombers, anti-building

Advent:

Laser (6)- LF, flak, caps, SB, fighters, support cruisers

Beam (4)- LRF, caps, bombers, turrets

Plasma (4)- HCs, caps, SB, anti-building

Visari:

Pulse (3)- LF, SB, support cruisers

Wave (2)- HC, caps

Missile (8)- LRF, flak, caps, fighters, bombers, caps, turret, SB

Visari LFs and HCs have never been popular, partly because they're slightly overpriced compared to their TEC and Advent counterparts; but I think a large part of the problem is that Visari pulse and wave weapons aren't cost effective compared to every other main damage type. Upgrading Visari pulse weapon or wave cannons has little benefit compared to upgrading phase missiles. This creates a snowball effect late game, where choosing between building an unupgraded HC or a fully upgraded phase missile unit(s) causes the LFs and HCs to continue to be ignored. Of course, wave cannon upgrade costs don't help matters either.

I'm curious what Visari players would think about shuffling unit damage types around a bit. Just as an example, what if it looking something like this:

Pulse - LF, SB, flak, fighters

Wave - HC, caps, support cruisers

Missiles - LRF, bombers, caps, turret, SB

Combined with some other changes such as lowering wave cannon costs and maybe adding a third tier of upgrades to pulse weapons, would this help Visari internal balance at all? Or would taking away phase missile from fighters and flak be a net nerf?

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WHIPperSNAPper2008

Join Date 03/2008

+126

The Skirmishers are almost always "ignored" simply because they cost a whopping 7 fleet supply.

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You should note that there are Pulse Guns which are on frigates and the Orky and then Pulse Beams which are on capitals. I've said before as I will say again, link these two upgrades. The PG upgrades yield 10% boost per level (+40%) and a 5% boost to PB's, while the PB upgrades yield a 15% boost to PB's (+60%) and a 5% increase on PG's. This means that both weapons types would actually be used.

You may think this a big boost, but its not... PG's really only affect the DPS of the Orky, but a +60% is nothing compared to its PM banks which deal more anyways... Also, a +80% boost to PB's might make this cap-only weapon somewhat useful.

In regards to wave cannons, they are simply weak in comparison to PM's. Phase Missiles are hands down the most powerful weapon type in the game. Wave cannons on the other hand are crap. They are like any other damage type, but they are only on one combat unit: the Enforcer. Is this a problem? Yes! IMO, Wave cannons need to do something. Perhaps make it so that all capitals and Enforcers end up instilling a buff via WC's that let's say reduces the accuracy of the target once you have a researchable. Then as you upgrade that line (which would be like the current one), it begins to affect other things too so by the time you reach the eighth tier, you are vastly increasing cooldowns passively and knock out passive regeneration. This would make WC's compete with the might of PM's. I don't know what else could though aside from having the upgrade tree yield a 50%/75%/100%/125%/150%/175% increase in damage to match the power of PM's... Outside of that, I don't know what to do...

Though I can say giving Support Cruisers WC's is not the way to go... Only primary combat units matter what damage type they have and these units that matter are: SC, Flak, LRF, and HC. HC are the only thing that benefits from WC upgrades, so why get them? It needs value...

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This has been repeated over an over: Vasari really lean way too much on their phase missiles and this makes every other technology path sub-optimal. The phase missiles are their best weapon type, on the most units, and they upgrades are really cost-effective. It really makes doing anything else prohibitive.

I'm totally with you, but if we were going to see any changes, it would have happened long ago.

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Yeah, at this point, the only way to fix this may be to mod it...

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