88Whistler88

Join Date 01/2010

New Player Looking for Advice and Maybe a Match Or Two

Hi all,

I may be a little late in arriving to this game but I've been having fun playing single player and I really like the way the game's mechanics force you to be more strategic than your standard RTS. That said, I have been having a few troubles that I'm trying to figure out. To give some background, I've been playing entirely as Vasari (picked a race at random to specialize in so I could get familiar with one enough to start oline play). I've been playing single player against normal computer, can beat it consistently but I feel like I need to up my efficiency before I try playing against people. That said here are my problems and questions:

1. I can easily get a large fleet going, generally I use the egg and begin with LRMs then start to add in other units as I expand, trying to keep about a 4:1 ratio of LRMs to my other unit types. Every time I really start rolling and headed for the enemy homeworld though I get set back by pirates coming for one of my planets and my offensive stalls while I go kill them, meantime the computer starts taking back the planet(s) I just smashed.

2. My economy really starts to stall after I get the second fleet size upgrade. I build a trade port at every world that isn't on my front line, but just can't seem to keep up.

3. I have trouble holding my choke point systems. The best I can seem to do is just mass repair buildings around my extractors, but it doesn't do anything to keep my planet from getting bombed. I don't want to build units and just keep them in by back field, because it would exacerbate my economy woes without helping me crush my enemy.

Any advice would be appreciated. Also, if any of you don't mind playing with a new guy on the team what time approximately do you play? I'd love to watch some people who know what they're doing.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

First of all, I assume this is for Standard Sins of a Solar Empire. The Entrenchment expansion changes a bit of the strategies, so correct me if I'm wrong.

You sound like you've got the basic concepts down, but there is obviosly some more things you can do. First of all, when people say the best they can beat is the normal computer consistantly, this suggests to me that you aren't expanding fast enough. Even the unfair AI is easy to beat if you have an equal sized fleet, its just getting their that stumps most new players. I'd try to find some good replays of skilled players on the expansion, some can probably get a dozen planets in a half an hour under ideal conditions. Also planets are considered the best source of income for the first 30-60 minutes, so generally don't invest to much into trade before then.

As to your specific routine

1. Eggs defidently a good first cap, in fact the only real contender is the Kortul because the things is almost invinsible. If I get your ratio right, 80% LRMs can work very early game, especially sense with the first phase missile upgrade allows them to take down capital ships very effeciently. However, experienced players will probably be able to counter that easily if they see it comming, which they should if they aren't tied up somewhere else. I'd try to vary your fleet up with at least some carrier cruisers if possible, though you should start changing your fleet composition based on what your enemies is as soon as possible.

2. As said first of all be careful with trade ports. They are a good source of income, but they are expensive and take a while to pay for themselves. If your opponent has a superior military, in multiplayer they will likely use it to destroy your trade ports early, causing you to lose your investment. Again, having a lot of planets with population upgrades is probably a better investment until you can't possible expand anymore without fighting hard battles with your opponent.

3. This is better in Entrenchment, especially for Vasari, as the Starbases can both destroy raiding fleets with easy and prevent the lose of your planets from bombing. But for regular Sins the best defense is probably lots of planet health upgrades, repair base and some carriers and light frigates hanging around your core planets ready to jump where their trouble. Hangar bays can be worth it against pirate raids (which are usually turned off in multiplayer), but not so much against AI frigate spams or raids my human players.

Also, one thing you might want to try is a comp stomp. Its an online match with human players all teamed against AI ones. That way you can see good players in action without getting your butt kicked by them first. You may have to arrange it here on the forums, but it would probably be a good experience if you can pull it off.

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Eggs defidently a good first cap, in fact the only real contender is the Kortul because the things is almost invinsible.

Skirantra is definitely a strong opener as well.

Anyways, the best way to deal with pirates is to have a small defensive force to hang back and use repair bays to support them. Repair bays allow a force to defeat enemies that outnumber them greatly, and since pirate ships are inferior to the stuff players can build to begin with, you can mop up pirates with ease. A single level 1 capital ship with repair bays to back it up can defeat large pirate raids easily. It's actually a great way to level up.

Trade ports are overrated, to be honest. You need to build a long trade network to get much use out of them. You're better off putting your money elsewhere. The key to a strong economy isn't income, but rather to be frugal. Spend less, make your income go further. Good players will be able to beat you with a weaker fleet and a weaker economy. It's all in how you use your assets.

If there's a full-sized enemy fleet threatening your flanks, you need to keep a fleet there to defend it. If you're fighting a two-front war, you'll definitely need to split or rotate your fleet. If you're seriously outnumbered, don't expect to be on the offensive unless you're significantly outplaying your opponent. If we're talking about few siege frigates, you can keep a small number of defenders on standby to beat them off. Two to three scouts for every siege frigate will do. Scouts are fast and cheap and actually pretty good at searching and destroy missions against light targets such as siege frigates, LRM's, construction frigates and colony friges.

Starbases in entrenchment are nice and will stop the AI, but don't expect them to stop a player fleet. Unless you have your own fleet to support them, starbases do nothing but buy extra time. A smart player will defeat any unsupported static defense given enough time, and if they bring a big fleet that static defense will be no match.

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I think the problem is where you were placing your repair bays. They would not be much good if they were spread out among your rescource extractors but they are much better if they were grouped as to overlap each other. A smaller fleet can defeat a larger pirate fleet by staying in the concentrated repair area, especially if you use a bait to lure them into that area.

You mentioned stalling your economy so I have to ask, are you upgrading your population developments on your newly conquered planets? It is wise to leave some credits and resources to start upgarding planets when conquered as too many underdeveloped planets can seriously tank your economy.

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Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 1

Do you really think he'll be able to see "good" players in comp stomps? I don't mean to be an ass, but it seems to me that the good players only play against other human opponens 99% of the time. Instead what he should do, if he has Entrenchment, is to watch replays and try to dissect everything that the good players do and to try to understand why.

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Yeah, you won't find many of the great players in comp stomps. It's actually bad for their reputation. When a beginner comp stomps, people just think he's learning the game. When an experienced player comp stomps, people think he's trying to pad his win ratio.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

^Indeed, which is why I said he'll probably have to arrange it on the forums (In reguard to the win ratio, what are smurfs for?). Also, while I did say good, somewhat experienced may have been a better phrase. The best and talented might not be willing, but people who at least know the tactics correctly and somewhat competently can be just as good.

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In reguard to the win ratio, what are smurfs for?

Smurfing is to escape your reputation. Padding your main account's win ratio is to artificially boost your reputation. Both are regarded in a very poor light.

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Both are regarded in a very poor light.

Yet, its a very very very common practice. Some even encourage it. AND then justify it by saying they dont wanna hurt their records. When records really mean nothing, other than the games you have play to some of the more 'pro' players. With 'pro' mean the few who play alot online and think themself above the mob.

There are exeptions to this mentality. But there are few who do not smurf or grief online.

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https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/366181/page/3/#2515158

here u go dude.Study this up and get to know all 3 races and counters and you will be good to go in mp.BTW raging amish is really good mp so this is all good.You might not be able to watch those replays.They have to be exact same version as you are running. There is another thread called astaxs replays so go check those out to watch some good plays.

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1. Every time I really start rolling and headed for the enemy homeworld though I get set back by pirates coming for one of my planets and my offensive stalls while I go kill them, meantime the computer starts taking back the planet(s) I just smashed.

1. Turn off pirates. Non-newbs don't play with pirates turned on in MP because then you aren't pitting your skill against a human, you are throwing a random AI element into the equation.

2. If you want to play with them on, figure out which worlds the pirates will attack (generally the closest worlds they can get to). Fortify a strategic spot in those grav wells with lots of turrets and repair bays. If you have Entrenchment (highly recommended), build a starbase there too, and mines. Also, hanger bays. Finally, to soak up all the free experience and gain levels, build a capship and set it there right in the middle of the turrets and repair bays on "hold position."

2. My economy really starts to stall after I get the second fleet size upgrade. I build a trade port at every world that isn't on my front line, but just can't seem to keep up.

You have to build trade correctly. You want to build out a long, single unbroken line of trade ports. See another post on how to do this.

3. I have trouble holding my choke point systems. The best I can seem to do is just mass repair buildings around my extractors, but it doesn't do anything to keep my planet from getting bombed.

See #2 above. Also, fighters are what counter siege frigates (planet bombers) so build hanger bays. Cheap scouts are effective against them too.

Any advice would be appreciated. Also, if any of you don't mind playing with a new guy on the team what time approximately do you play? I'd love to watch some people who know what they're doing.

PM me.

EDIT: I was surprised to see some of the more experienced players, like Darvin, say that trade isn't all its cracked up to be, blah blah. While I certainly respect his skill level as a player, I will say I have to disagree. In a non-rush situation, I find that getting trade up as early as possible is a top priority. Most times I'd have trade ready to go by the time I get a string of 3-4 planets. This is especially true when you are playing against a normal AI.

Against a human in 1v1 on small random map, the same thing applies (he's far enough away from you where you can have trade up before you are rushed). On pointblank map, you wouldn't want to go for trade, of course.

I you want eco as vasari, I recommend starting with the egg and gobbling up planets like a fat man at a buffet. Also, with vasari, it is somewhat acceptable to forgoe trade at first in lieu of getting refineries, but you have to have a good spot to put them (do NOT just spam them anywhere), and you'd want to research the mineral upgrades. Also, before you spam trade ports or refineries as vasari, I recommend getting the tier 3 upgrade (both levels) which makes all structures and ships cheaper. Also, make sure you conquer and hold as many neutral resource areas as possible. Do all this and your money should be flowing in faster than you can spend it.

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I do go for trade depending on the map layout in a 1v1, but often times I do not. A typical planet, between tax and extractor income, produces about 2-3 times as much wealth as a trade port. In general you get a lot more out of colonizing at a faster pace then you do out of fast trade.

When I go fast trade, it's because the map randomized in such a way that I can get away with just my colony cap and maybe a few frigates to colonize at nearly an optimal rate. Usually if there's an opportunity to do so, building a second cap to increase your colonization speed is a much better investment. However, if the map randoms in such a way that one cap is sufficient, then it makes a lot of sense to stay out of upkeep and invest your money in something like trade.

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