Hmm... good with 2 characters and you assume he'd do well with any other character... heh.  That's right there in my definition for tier 1... if you assume they are good with any character, they are in.     That said, I certainly don't deny that Hedgie is a great player.  And to go a step further, the definition for tier 1 is:

Hedgie does shine as an individual, not with a wide variety of characters (but the wording does say GENERALLY), but he doesn't depend on a specific team or teammate to do well.  He can play exceptionally in teams of all sizes.  He' doesn't cheat or desync games.  He makes games better if he's on your team or against you and he's an active player.  I agree.  Hedgie goes to tier 1.  Adding now.

Synn - as mean as it sounds, I haven't been in any game with you where you struck me as tier 2. The next time we play together, I'll pay close attention and watch the replay.  I'll gladly recant that statement if I'm in the wrong.

No, I don't think all of GM should be tier 1.  You put a bunch of decent folks on a team and perhaps a superstar or 2 and everyone thinks they are the best.  The best are the folks that shine in a game.  They tend to stand out, imo.  In forming team super premade, who really stands out?  And as you indicate that you think all are tier 1 in GM, apparently no one stands out... and part of the tier 1 definition is "players shine as individuals" and "do not depend on a specific team or teammate to do well."  I'm assuming what I'm really saying here might be confused, so I'll make another effort to clarify if needed.  Suffice to say, if GM is full of tier 1's, then surely they will shine outside of GM where they don't have the benefit of team super premade.  

Are GM-Janook and Janook different people, or is he so awesome that he's in both tier 1 and tier 2?

Good catch.  removed from tier 2.  I'm all for removing inactives if we are keeping this going.  If you see someone in the list that hasn't played in > 30 days, let me know and I'll remove.

Honestly, I should be in tier0.  Out of the 20 people who still play this game I am definitely one of the top 20.

Close to flawless sounds about right.  These games would be at least an hour long with whichever sides unclean beast plays better eventually deciding it.  We still haven't got a 3 vs 3 of some combination of those guys vs you kalel, and trouser yet pacov.  Orcun, Renzo, and I got one in against kalel, trouser, and jongalt the other day but they only wanted to do random, and then when we tried to join again a second time they just closed it off and remade.  I think they need you to lead them into battle.

I'm not sure what that would show.  If you let me choose a 3 man team out of those folks and I made my own 3 man team using non GM members, I'm reasonably confident my team would win the majority of the time.  Of course, that's just talk and we should put that to the test, but that wouldn't really disqualify them in any way from tier 1... you don't have to kick my butt to get into tier 1...

Fil26 should be in these tiers some place. He took advantage of some poor play by me recently and beat the hell out of me. I have only played him that one time recently though. Anyone else have insight?

I don't have a dog in this race, just talking it through.

I've never played a serious game with or against you, Pacov, and I'm looking at 4-8 games played per week at best throughout my time with Demigod, so I might just have a lower standard of near-flawless play ^^

As it is, I'm going to paraphrase myself from a much earlier comment in this thread:

"consistently brilliant team players who punish all opponent mistakes and have impeccable builds* and strategic objectives. (*Builds includes skill allocation, cit upgrades, equipment, and item choices.)"

Most of these guys seem to fit that standard, but again, I'm not too invested here.  I was more trying to get a handle on how you define the "stand-out Tier 1 player" in a game of players who are all at comparable high levels of play.  If at that level the determining factor is who has a slightly better UB then should we take everyone off Tier 1 who doesn't play UB?

Incidentally Kira tends to focus on one DG for long periods of time until he owns it.  He played Reg for a year or so before switching to UB.  Regardless of Kira's play, does that type of approach get less credit because it's deep rather than broad?

Oh and finally I vouch Fil26 and Axon for Tier 2

methinks I'm going to have to work on my internet tone today... not attempting to be accusatory or offensive.  But, for the sake of clarity with you, Ke5, I understand that you aren't taking shots at anyone here, etc.

I can certainly appreciate how you flesh this out here a bit more.  I tend to agree.  A tier 1 player should have this. 

Well, it certainly does get more challenging to determine tier 1 talent in high level games.  Especially in the circumstances that you've crafted in which all of the players are relatively even.  Its simply my thought that all players are not relatively even.  Some are more aggressive than others, so are better at specific characters than others, some have better map awareness, some are setting traps, some are coordinating players by setting up distractions while another teammate gets a key flag or portal, etc.  Anyway, its a number of factors... for me to personally identify someone I'd consider tier 1, I'd generally need to play with them and against them, etc.

 caps are for noobs

Ok then - best of three challenge issued.  Kalel/trouser/pacov vs magnus/morph/mith.  If we win, Ninki can eat:

if wrong I can eat:

We can table this specific discussion until after we get those games in. 

Anyone else have info about fil26?  Anything in particular stand out or he just strike you as a solid player?

oh christ, the last time I played with mith he died 6 times as oak... ;(