Bestial Wrath sucks early game but late game (i.e. past level 14/15) it becomes very tough and is probably the only ability you'll use a lot once artifacts hit the ground. An Ooze/BW could work very well late game.

But thats the problem. Games dont often get to that stage.

I do have a nice bestial wrath build but Im keeping it hidden until I do a bit more work with it.

Main thing to say is that if your using pure Ooze versus a spit beast, you will lose a lot early game. And only use BW in big fights or later on (Big fights because people often are too busy fighting or dont notice you activating it >>)

I think under any condition hybrid is better than full ooze unless there is a sedna in the opponent team.

Ooze is a movespeed and attack speed build that also abuses sigils, hp, and larger priest heals.  Spit is more of a harassing/weakening ability that doesn't scale very well late game imo.  The hp stats and attack speed scale better late game, and the movespeed early is to provide superior leveling via capping flags. 

What's nice is you don't have to manage mana and will always be able to grasp, and will have a speed advantage to escape with inner beast, boots, and claws.  And this game is all about not making mistakes. You're not as strong as a spit/ooze early on.  But you can cap and creep faster, and you're definitely not a pushover.

Again if there is a Rook, reg, tb, queen, I agree spit/ooze is superior.  Vs other characters it can really go either way.  Have you tried straight ooze? It's quite strong.  There's really more to it as a playstyle than the missing dps numbers from spit, especially when huge sigil boosts and life leech from the improved attack speed is involved late game.

How so? It does 2150 damage if someone actually tries to stand their ground against you, that's far more than stats. Plus that's assuming you don't have a BotS, if you do you can use it off cooldown, doing 250 DPS 5 out of every 7 seconds.

I'd like to see the math behind stats doing more damage than that.

 

It's not that so much as spit does its damage over time. And by going spit you either sacrifice ooze or inner beast. Most people sacrifice inner beast. This means you don't get acclimation. Acclimation + ooze + HP stack + life drain + Move speed increase + attack speed increase + damage increase + sigil = makes you unkillable

 

Plus if someone tries to stand their ground against you that means that the other beast is in your face. If he's that close there's nothing stopping him from interrupting your next spit. Putting you on cooldown, recouping some HP from the first spit, while taking 40% less dmg from auto attack due to ooze and 40% less damage from acclimation.

So your attack speed is lowered by 40%, and the acclimation beast takes 40% less overall dmg from acclimation, plus sigils life steals etc. etc. etc.

If anyone is holding their ground, it's acclimation sigil ooze hp stacking beast

You won't have acclimation before me. with boots of speed off the start I'm capping more flags, faster, creeping more creeps with ooze faster. I'm just leveling and getting gold much quicker. Not to mention if you go spit, at some point during the game you will have to return to the crystal for mana, I don't have to return to the crystal, for anything, ever. Ally gives me a priest and im good to go all game. I never leave my lane. constant creeping / flag capping. I'll go buy items of course, but that happens 1-3x during the course of the game. Whereas after a big battle and yoru mana is drained you'll go back to the crystal, while I'm out capping flags and creeping, getting my hp back from ally priest over time.

 

If you potion in my face you're neglecting either sigils, TP's , or locks. You can potion in my face, then my allies take your portal at war rank 10 and you can't lock it. you lose

Or you can potion in my face, but you can't TP when you need to.

Or you can potion in my face, but can't carry sigil's in which case you lose as well

First off, who cares? Acclimation doesn't affect UB vs. UB battles until artifacts hit the field.

Second I was talking about the build's structure at 15, not whether or not your assumption that you'll always be what 1-20 levels higher than everyone else is correct.

Acclimation is available for a very small percentage of the game. Hybrid UB sacrifices 5 points in stats and a favor item slot. This is about 1450 hp. One spit at level 15 can knock off this advantage. Spit is also versatile, allowing me to kill buildings.

I've no doubt that your build is playable, I just don't think that it's better than a hybrid UB. (P.S, if a hybrid UB uses BotF, he's doing it wrong.) I might try giving it a go to see what I think.

I rarely have my spit interrupted.

Well thanks for considering giving it a try!  I'm glad your argument is based on what you "think" rather than experience.  It's not like I exclusively play ooze I actually play both builds you haters.  Try it out, post the rep.  If you think it sucks, maybe we can help by giving some advice, because it does not.  It's a playstyle, and in 3 on 3 decisive battles mid-late game, an ooze beast with a sigil will "out-tank" a bots beast, or a spit beast with a helm.  Stop obsessing over small scale 1 v 1s.  If two armies go balls-out on the beast this ooze build has a much higher suvivability with increased speed and hp, and can effectively tank longer while the spit will have to retreat sooner.

So then it becomes a matter of how long the fights last. Generally speaking I think it's quite likely that they'll last long enough for spit to mitigate a 1200 HP difference, especially considering the spit will land before both parties enter melee range.

Not really in an especially meaningful way though. Stats only give 36 weapon damage, 12% weapon speed, and 150 armor. So the real difference is 11 damage (the blade gives +25), 12% attack speed, and 150 armor. All of those things matter, but do they really equate to a 150 DPS (250 DPS late game) swing? I really doubt it.There's no way either beast is going to escape the other unless they start at very high health and have towers/partners nearby. Both have identical speed and the Ooze beast has only a 5% greater snare.

Not really, it's not saying it's one of a few viable options, the thread argues that ooze is the

OMGWTFBBQ BEASTTTTTTTTTT BUILD

Endgame ooze beast will have ~2300 more hp with a sigil and 12% faster attack speed as well as grasp spam. 

If any ability procs acclimation (penitence, bite, slam, etc), which most do endgame, you're looking at another 40% hp on top of that ~2300.  Not to mention Ooze is reducing attack speed by 40% making every point of hp that much more valuable.

Factor in priests, and honestly spit's damage is hardly even noticeable.  It's a tickle.  Watch as opposing teams die in vain trying to kill this insanely powerful hp beast thats like chipping away at a brick wall.

I think we can all agree that hp is king in this game.  Acclimation is OP.  Sigils are OP.  Ooze is OP.  I would say spit is definitely good, but late game, all of those OP things fuse together in such a way that the Ooze beast really is an unstoppable behemoth.

But whatever 1 v 1 theorize all you want in a team game.  And of course don't try the build out first before commenting how crap it is.  That's would be ridiculous.

You think I'm underestimating spit, I think you're underestimating stacking ooze, stats, sigils, priests and acclimation.  Maybe we should setup some kind of "to the death" match.  Oak Ereb Spit Beast vs Oak Ereb Ooze Beast.  Endgame gear, focus the beasts, spam spells, see who drops first.

Of course this assumes equal level.  Typically an Ooze beast should have a level advantage due to more flags capped.