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Join Date 04/2006
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Strike Craft Bug (I think this is why they feel so weak)

April 16, 2008 7:58:23 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I just tested the speed of strike craft in 3 random games I started in SP mode. Each had everything set to fast except ship speed. The first was slow, the second was normal speed and the third was fast.

In each test I had a bomber and a fighter (advent) start on one end of the gravity well and fly to the other (over/around planet)

In each game the fighters arrived in approx 30 seconds, and the bombers in approx 36 seconds.

I think this is a bug. The strike craft should get a speed boost when ships speed is increased no? Their whole potential as a weapon is dependent on how fast they can get to the enemy and attack from range. If they got the same speed in each game mode their effectiveness is essentially nerfed by setting the game to normal or fast speed.

I think this is why these weapons feel weak, when the other ships all start going faster these guys still go the same speed which makes them less effective.

Can someone else test this and confirm this?

Agree, Disagree?
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Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
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Reply #1 April 17, 2008 7:02:12 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
That's an interesting find. I'll run a test tonight when I'm able to!
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Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #2 April 18, 2008 11:23:08 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Has anyone looked into this? I think this make a HUGE difference in how useful strikecraft are. With all ships on fast speed the strike craft end up chasing the enemy instead of attacking. Plus other ships can close the distance to the carriers taking less damage and getting their faster.

Anyone know why this is the case?
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Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
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Reply #3 April 18, 2008 11:31:07 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Cripes, I fail Forgot to time it yesterday. Sorry!
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Ironhandx
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #4 April 18, 2008 11:47:26 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
whoa, I didn't notice this yesterday. Will test as soon as I get time.
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astrath
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #5 April 18, 2008 11:50:54 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I just invade with two carriers, a few light carriers and some frigates etc. They're not so weak when there's a swarm of about 50 bombers and 20 or so fighters. Ah, the fun of sitting back and watching the enemy explode in clouds of debris. Aside from that, you may indeed have a point regarding speed, but I'm not one to judge.
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sunlightboy
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #6 April 18, 2008 12:00:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Now this is a find!

Tested!

and when i say tested i didnt just play around flying in solar systems, i played 3 games with the different speeds.
i was able to win the game 2 vs 1 (hard ai) using only fighters n bommber (2fighters for 1 bomber, witch is pretty weak combination) on a small galaxy. (slow speed)
in about 45 minutes!

lost on both other speeds with same combination.

replayed twice on normal speed using diffrente fighter/bomber combinations:
won once with 1 fighter / 8 bomber (squads) combinations and a shit load of micro

played once more on fast speed and lost i never killed a cap..

he's got a point, fighters and bombers need to be sped up a bit!
even if it dont look good.

i have no clue how to mod but if i can help with mod testing jus ask.

aurelien.barthelemy@yahoo.com

aurel.
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SplitPeaSoup
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #7 April 18, 2008 12:27:17 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I just invade with two carriers, a few light carriers and some frigates etc. They're not so weak when there's a swarm of about 50 bombers and 20 or so fighters. Ah, the fun of sitting back and watching the enemy explode in clouds of debris. Aside from that, you may indeed have a point regarding speed, but I'm not one to judge.


Actually, they are very strong ordinarily (I don't know about the bug.). In fact, the only real way to counter 50 (or 80+) bombers is to have 40 (60+) fighters of your own. Cruiser heavy fleets should go this route. Bombers do insane damage to cruisers

20 squadrens of bombers = 16 additional cruisers you can field.
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Nerhesi
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #8 April 19, 2008 12:47:24 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
In fact, the only real way to counter 50 (or 80+) bombers is to have 40 (60+) fighters of your own. Cruiser heavy fleets should go this route. Bombers do insane damage to cruisers 20 squadrens of bombers = 16 additional cruisers you can field.


Uhm... or have like 5-6 Flak and laugh at the bombers?

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bradyule
Join Date 06/2006
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Reply #9 April 19, 2008 3:17:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I bet ten upgraded (AOE) sentinels could wipe out those bombers in 3 volleys.
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Tsear
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #10 April 19, 2008 3:29:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Wow, this is pretty huge. You missed that the faster speed would mean that the fighters/bombers would survive better against flak.
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SplitPeaSoup
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #11 April 19, 2008 7:30:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Uhm... or have like 5-6 Flak and laugh at the bombers?


Why do people believe this? I bet Regicide started it. Do not shout, "NERF!" unless you are sure these strategies do not work. I wager your economy is just bad. That is probably why you keep losing.

The ships are pretty well balanced. A flak will neuteralize maybe a single bomber squadron, but not before that squadron does a lot of damage. 80 bombers will destroy 6 flak in maybe 2 runs...

Also, you have to rebuild destroyed flak, your carriers will replace destroyed bombers.

So lets say those 6 flak take out 20 bombers before they die. 80 carriers will replace those in a single building time. In fact, they could replace 80 bombers just as fast.

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SplitPeaSoup
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Reply #12 April 19, 2008 7:32:56 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
... on the other hand, you can expect 60 fighter squadrons to take out multiple bomber squadrons in a single run.

An interesting point is that the flak will fare much better against the fighters.
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SplitPeaSoup
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Reply #13 April 19, 2008 7:35:07 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I bet ten upgraded (AOE) sentinels could wipe out those bombers in 3 volleys.


I don't play Vasari, so I do not know what you mean. I will look into this. Although, I generally only build flaks to take out fighters.
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Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #14 April 20, 2008 1:38:02 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
The ships are pretty well balanced. A flak will neuteralize maybe a single bomber squadron, but not before that squadron does a lot of damage. 80 bombers will destroy 6 flak in maybe 2 runs...

What makes you believe strikecraft are well balanced? For their cost they are pathetic. You're better off spending those credits on other forces. If you enemy does then you're likely going to lose the fight.

80 vs 6 and that makes them ok? Are you joking?
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Reply #15 April 24, 2008 3:56:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
so can we expect this to be fixed or is this intended for some reason?

It's already difficult to select your strikecraft because they move so fast, if we upped their speed to make them faster it might cause a lot of annoying issues while using them.

They don't do that much better at normal I've found. setting ship speeds to slow makes a big difference but the game is too slow to play online at that point.
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Itharus
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #16 April 24, 2008 4:32:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Somewhat off topic:

What's really sad is that in theory, flakk cannons should be BETTER against bombers than fighters. Larger, slower moving, less maneouverable targets would be hit much more than a nimble star fighter.

The whole deal is sort of counter intuitive as it plays out in SoaSE.
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DarkCloud
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #17 April 26, 2008 10:36:32 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
It's already difficult to select your strikecraft because they move so fast, if we upped their speed to make them faster it might cause a lot of annoying issues while using them.


@Tumbler
Selecting your fighters and bombers is easy. Just alt select them from the empire menu. Which brings me to a point. I wish they would fix the empire tree from moving so much.
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